Finally! In Tank AEFW Treatment Success

[MisterP]

Pics or it didn't happen :fun2:

Just messing with you...but pics of the recovery would be nice.

 

[Laser Lammons]

shots from aefw eggs being observed from day 9 and day 11

 

[Laser Lammons]

shots from day 12 observation with zoom look. The eggs appear to have white specs in them and I have not been able to observe any movement through the camera zooom. Also included a pic of the same coral that was almost a goner before treatment, had totally lost color, no PE, and the base --well you can see that pretty good. Colors have already come back, PE somewhat back and recovering nicely.

Please dont hatch eggs!!:deadhorse::deadhorse:

 

[Laser Lammons]

a closer look at the eggs

 

[Laser Lammons]

:hmm6:

 

[msderganc]

I think that this is a great find, but primarily for dipping corals.

I'd prefer to use the Levamisole in tank treatment, probably combined with some timing plan to break the reproductive cycle. I just don't see how I could remove all of my fish, and I couldn't dose something to the tank as a whole that would knowingly kill any of the fish.

 

[afernandez]

Even tho I have no acros in the tank I want to do this treatment .. I'm just hesitant bc I don't want to remove my fish (bc I would have to take all the rocks out ) and i don't want destroy my rock work.

 

[Aquattro]

Even tho I have no acros in the tank I want to do this treatment

What would be the point in doing this if you don't have acros?

 

[afernandez]

I had a breakout & I removed all acros out of my system . So I want to exterminate just a though ...not solid

Also considering flatworm exit. Tank right now only has Lps/zoos and fish

 

[Aquattro]

If you have no acro tissue, I'd just wait it out and they'll die off on their own. While this sounds like it has potential, it also has risks and i wouldn't do it "just in case"

 

[afernandez]

Thanks ..I completely understand that ...And I don't want some unknown chemical lingering around after its all set and done . (Just a though)

the only thing that concerns me that they might still be in the system laying eggs and I'm wishing I can Nuke them from the source. And get rid of them 1000% percent which at this point we are not even close to doing

 

[Laser Lammons]

If you have no acro tissue, I'd just wait it out and they'll die off on their own. While this sounds like it has potential, it also has risks and i wouldn't do it "just in case"

As I stated earlier this was done in "desperation" for the acros. We did loose fish and many tank inhabitants. You can also expect a major algae outbreak (mini cycle) due to all the die off from the little ones. We are fighting that already and really looking forward to the second treatment observations. If we see no aefw we will continue to watch the eggs and make sure there is no hatching.
I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS AS A JUST IN CASE METHOD. At least at this point in the game..

 

[Laser Lammons]

I have been able to get in contact with Kate Rawlison and she is taking a look at the threads from the UK now! Hopefully she will chime in soon and let us know what her thoughs are on the eggs. I am on my way to my brothers house now to take pics of the eggs and check them out.

 

[Laser Lammons]

shots from day 13

 

[KateRawlinson]

Great photos - those egg capsules are all open (see the little open circle in each egg capsule - that is the 'trapdoor' that opens at hatching) and I can't tell whether they hatched before or after the Potassium Chloride treatment. At hatching the AEFWs probably swim straight into the coral skeleton (but some may spend some time swimming around in the tank). If these eggs hatched before the treatment the hatchlings in the coral skeleton might have had some protection from the increased salinity from the corals own slime, alternatively like the adult worms they might have been killed. Hatchlings are microscopic (0.3mm) so you would need a microscope to assess the impact of KCL on them. If they hatched after the treatment it means that the Potassium Chloride soln wasn't effective at killing off the embryos in their egg capsules.

Your findings are really encouraging especially given the resilience of the Acropora to the treatment, and they have given us some very focused questions to answer.
1) can hatchlings and juveniles (that you can't see with the naked eye) survive this treatment?
2) can the Potassium Chloride solution kill off embryos in the egg capsules?

Flatworms, like corals, use mucous as a protection against environmental changes. Your KCL treatment seemed to work well against the adults and we can now look at the effects on the younger stages.

We are restocking our AEFW tanks with new Acropora now (after a die off due to bacteria) and we can try these experiments shortly.

I think AEFW can grow quite quickly, so if you didn't repeat this treatment for a while, say 4-6 weeks, then did it again and saw small AEFW (5mm) fly off then that might tell you that eggs and hatchlings can survive the treatment.

 

[Laser Lammons]

Great photos - those egg capsules are all open (see the little open circle in each egg capsule - that is the 'trapdoor' that opens at hatching) and I can't tell whether they hatched before or after the Potassium Chloride treatment. At hatching the AEFWs probably swim straight into the coral skeleton (but some may spend some time swimming around in the tank). If these eggs hatched before the treatment the hatchlings in the coral skeleton might have had some protection from the increased salinity from the corals own slime, alternatively like the adult worms they might have been killed. Hatchlings are microscopic (0.3mm) so you would need a microscope to assess the impact of KCL on them. If they hatched after the treatment it means that the Potassium Chloride soln wasn't effective at killing off the embryos in their egg capsules.

Your findings are really encouraging especially given the resilience of the Acropora to the treatment, and they have given us some very focused questions to answer.
1) can hatchlings and juveniles (that you can't see with the naked eye) survive this treatment?
2) can the Potassium Chloride solution kill off embryos in the egg capsules?

Flatworms, like corals, use mucous as a protection against environmental changes. Your KCL treatment seemed to work well against the adults and we can now look at the effects on the younger stages.

We are restocking our AEFW tanks with new Acropora now (after a die off due to bacteria) and we can try these experiments shortly.

I think AEFW can grow quite quickly, so if you didn't repeat this treatment for a while, say 4-6 weeks, then did it again and saw small AEFW (5mm) fly off then that might tell you that eggs and hatchlings can survive the treatment.

This is copy of email that was replied to Kate:

Thanks for taking the time to view the aefw and give your expertise. It is really important to know that the eggs had already hatched and thanks again for your insight. Do you have any acro with aefw eggs currently alive? If so a dip treatment with the KCL can be prepared by adding 1 teaspoon of dry KCL to 1/2 gallon of water. That is equivalent to the whole tank treatment that was performed. It would be really interesting to know if the treatment effects the eggs or if they were already hatched before the treatment.
Now for the go ahead plan:
option 1 - continue on with the second treatment tonight assuming the treatment does not effect the eggs (this is 14 days since last treatment) or would you recommend to wait a longer period such as 21 days due to a hatch time?
option 2- do nothing going forward and observe over time - knowing that a further treatment could be necessary(4 to 6 weeks) to watch aefw possibly grow and re-infest the acro colonies. --- seems a bit concerning to the wellfare of the SPS over time if the aefw was not killed the first treatment.

So if I did the treatment tonight do you not feel that we could conclude that the initial treatment did not kill the eggs? Assuming that we see small or any aefw. I am in a pickle now as to what would be best going forward.

 

[Laser Lammons]

here is response on email from Kate:

Our most recent experiments show that eggs hatch 11-14 days at 27C. I've got to run now, but will get back to you in 4 hours time as to what to do next. Saving your corals is the most important thing right now. Lets discuss later, Kate.

 

[OnceTrueFalseBr]

Just a question, not trying to be all animal cruelty, but by "success", that means saving the SPS Corals at the possible sacrifice of the fish?

 

[OnceTrueFalseBr]

just sayin...

just sayin...

I think that this is a great find, but primarily for dipping corals.

I'd prefer to use the Levamisole in tank treatment, probably combined with some timing plan to break the reproductive cycle. I just don't see how I could remove all of my fish, and I couldn't dose something to the tank as a whole that would knowingly kill any of the fish.

+1

We QT the fish from the DT when they get ICH to save the corals.

We dose the DT to save the corals without batting an eye at the death of the fish.

Does this sound proper?

why not QT/HT the corals?

It is beginning to seem that Money "Invested"(hundreds and thousands on corals) trumps the life(20 - 200$) fish acquired in this hobby...

 

[sahin]

Thanks ..I completely understand that ...And I don't want some unknown chemical lingering around after its all set and done . (Just a though)

the only thing that concerns me that they might still be in the system laying eggs and I'm wishing I can Nuke them from the source. And get rid of them 1000% percent which at this point we are not even close to doing

I'd use Levamisole if you really wanted to ensure AEFW were gone for good. Without an acro present in the tank, they'd die out anyway.