Check it though! None of the places I buy from run their tanks for fish that high (well, other than DD); she may be confused. In fact, if you think about it, since their incoming shipments are almost certainly at lower salinity, it makes little sense for them to keep theirs at 1.024. Invert system, yes; fish system, no.
First Fish in Quarantine Dead
- Thread starter CodeBlueMedic
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Check it though! None of the places I buy from run their tanks for fish that high (well, other than DD); she may be confused. In fact, if you think about it, since their incoming shipments are almost certainly at lower salinity, it makes little sense for them to keep theirs at 1.024. Invert system, yes; fish system, no.
CodeBlueMedic
New member
Good call...I wonder if they would mind me testing the water before I buy and/or having them test it when I am there. This new shop I'm trying seems to be pretty good with customer service, so we shall see. I'm gonna go there tomorrow, so I'll update when I do.
ETA: Is there anything I should do before purchasing another fish? I already did a large water change and cleaned everything from the last fishy. I'll definitely double check their water before I add him to mine and I'll do a drip acclimation if necessary. Is there a benefit to keeping a towel or something over the tank for a day or so to limit the light and movement from people walking by?
myofibroblast
New member
60 ppm NO3 in 40L = roughly 2.4g NO3, yes
Now correct for percentage of molecular mass. NO3 MW = 62 g/mol, N= 14g/mol
In 2.4g of NO3, you have only roughly 542mg or 0.54g of N.
Carry on.
TangySushi
New member
Not saying its the best, the best would be to match the salinity, I agree with that. But I'm somewhat lazy and don't feel like adding water or salt right when I get home with a fish in the bag. Since I setup the QT the night before not knowing which store I'm going to buy from and their salinities. It's better than setting it up with the DT water which is at 1.026 if that makes sense.
Another thing I like about the drip method is you can get almost all the store water out and catch the fish in a small container instead of a net. If you just float then you have to use a net to catch them inside the bag or however, its just not as easy.
Pigpen17
New member
I would double check as well. I had my water tested at the LFS and was told I was at 1.022. That just didn't seem right. When I bought and calibrated my first refractometer I was actually at1.028! Dude was way off.
I don't worry all that much about getting 'shipping' water into my QT frankly - DT yes, QT not so much. I figure whatever is in the water is also on the fish, and any chemicals in the shipping water are unlikely to have much affect on the QT. I suppose I probably shouldn't just dump in the water along with the fish (I'm lazy too
), but I've never really had reason to regret doing it.I don't worry all that much about getting 'shipping' water into my QT frankly - DT yes, QT not so much. I figure whatever is in the water is also on the fish, and any chemicals in the shipping water are unlikely to have much affect on the QT. I suppose I probably shouldn't just dump in the water along with the fish (I'm lazy too
I'm with you, if I'm going to put a fish from an outside source into the QT then treat with a couple cycles of prazi and then observe for a bit, I'm not too worried about the water getting into my QT tank. I don't let the QT water get into the DT however
I just dump it all in regardless of shipped or not shipped. I typically am using a 20 gal as my QT, so how much is a quart or so of water really going to affect things? Plus I keep a stash of seeded biomedia that would support 10 QT tanks, so I'm not all that fussed about a little bit of ammonia. Certainly don't put shipping water or QT water into your display, but in the QT I think it's fine. But look, there are almost as many ways to do this as there are people doing it, so just do what makes sense to you ....
Pigpen17
New member
Thanks. Yeah, I think this makes a whole lot of sense. Try to get your QT salinity as close as you can in advance, measure on arrival, float for temp and drop the sucker in.
Easier on you = easier on them.
jasonandsarah
New member
Prime...Amquel...
I always drip acclimate and really only buy my fish online. I find greater success in the drip method and small amount of prime or AmQuel will take care of the ammonia.
CodeBlueMedic
New member
I drip acclimated my most recent purchase (Byno Goby) and he is doing fantastic...I'm not a believer.
wooden_reefer
New member
The ammonia concentration is usually in ppm N ammonia.
The N is to state that only the weight of the N atom counts.
This is an easy way to say 1 ppm N ammonia will give 1 ppm N nitrite and then 1 ppm nitrate.
The is the simplified way and I believe most if not all test kits are this way.
The molecular weight don't count.
In straight copper, we also just say 0.3 ppm metallic, whatever is used.
0.3 ppm cu comes from about 1.2 ppm cuso4.5H2O
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If you do not quarantine your fish then drip acclimation is really your only recourse. If you do quarantine, and you should, then drip acclimation is completely unnecessary. There are plenty of threads here on RC detailing a better approach - whether folks do it, or don't do it, is ultimately up to them.
myofibroblast
New member
Incorrect. You claim that the test read out is in "N-nitrate" when in fact the read out is nitrate NOT the ppm of nitrogen in nitrate, just as their total ammonia read out is ammonia and NOT the nitrogen content in ammonia.
The 60 ppm increase is in total nitrate, not N-nitrate. Whatever your issue, be it back peddling, a profound misunderstanding of output measures, whatever, please be sure you don't give the incorrect information.
When the original poster asked the question, he asked about nitrate. If you insist using N-nitrate, do the conversion and check your assumptions before you make claims about the accuracy of his test kit.
Yes, some nitrate and ammonia kits give N-NO3 and N-NH3 readings BUT they are ALWAYS clear and explicit about the output measure. This is not the case here and there is no need to introduce N-NO3 to the discussion.
Check your arithmetic.
wooden_reefer
New member
Don't get so excited. This is just a discussion.
I believe most if not all test kits are calibrated in N-ammonia, N-nitrite, and N-nitrate. Only the weight of the nitrogen atom counts in the weight. I suggest that you find out. I am not very sure all are like this. Mine is in N-ammonia, I just happen to remember seeing one or two other are also in N-ammonia.
Do you think it is a good idea to have to calculate how many ppm nitrite is converted from 1 ppm ammonia? No
Do you think it is a good idea to have to say 1.2 ppm CuSo4.5H2O (or some other number for other copper salt) instead of 0.3 ppm (metallic) Cu?
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myofibroblast
New member
I appreciate your concern.
API tests total nitrate, as does Red Sea. The last I remember, Salifert also has a total nitrate test though I haven't used it recently so I cannot confirm that.
As for reporting, either way of reporting is fine. Some people find it easier to think in moles or molarity, some prefer percentage like mass per mass (e.g. ppm). Either way, the arithmetic is simple and straightforward. So no, I don't think it matters either way.
As for conversion of nitrification products, it really doesn't matter because there is very little practical use in aquarium keeping. After establishment of nitrification organisms, one does not need to know X moles ammonia led to X moles of nitrate or Y ppm of ammonia led to Z ppm of nitrates.
A. Either you did not know the output was in total nitrates (in which case please check your assumptions prior to criticizing the reliability of another's test kit) or B. you used N-nitrates without paying attention to the original question (in which case I recommend asking the poster for clarification before declaring his test kit is wrong).
In the spirit of suggestions, I also suggest you find out. Precision is wonderful. It leads to less misunderstanding, and less false accusations. If, in fact, the original poster meant nitrate-nitrogen (which is spelled out in test kits), I apologize to you.
wooden_reefer
New member
Look for words like ppm nitrite nitrogen. This is what it means, same as N-nitrite.
Also, just because it doesn't say this does not necessarily mean that it counts the whole molecule.
There might be such a thing as tradition and expectation.
And there should be more civility here.
You can test to see if 10 ppm ammonia yields 10 ppm nitrate or 36.5 ppm nitrate according to your kit. Avoid denitrification by having highly aerobic nitrification filter. You may be surprised to read 10 ppm nitrate.
,
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myofibroblast
New member
Yes, we are aware of what ammonia-nitrogen, nitrite-nitrogen, and nitrate-nitrogen means and how they are denoted.
To be specific, again, many of the popular nitrate test kits including API and Red Sea, and I believe Salifert as well, indicate NO3- ppm in their colorimetric read out (i.e. nitrate, NOT nitrate-nitrogen). As you alluded to yourself, if a kit reads nitrate-nitrogen, it would state that. The original poster never mentioned nitrate-nitrogen.
As for expectations and tradition, you might be expecting nitrate-nitrogen but it doesn't mean it is true. In fact, when the kit says NO3- ppm, it almost certainly makes your assumption or expectation to be untrue. If you rely on expectation but never read the label, then you operate under false assumptions and give out potentially disastrous advice (such as your test kit is "bad", as you said to the original poster).
This is the central issue. Perhaps before you accuse the original poster of having a bad nitrate test kit based on your nitrate-nitrogen calculations, you should clarify whether his kit reads nitrate ppm or nitrate-nitrogen ppm.
Never assume. Always read the label.
