I have lots of experience w/ fish and non-SPS reef tanks and am ready to set up my first SPS tank. I am thinking a 75-90 gal tank, with a decent-sized sump/refugium. Other than that, I am a blank slate. I know I want good lighting (t5s or MH), an excellent skimmer (EuroReef?), and high flow (e.g., closed loop or Tunze stream). What esle should I be planning? What should I avoid? I like a sandbed -- I'm leaning toward 1-inch of fine/very fine sand, but could also do a DSB (I've used a DSB w/plenum in past tanks but was never really sure I got it right as far as the infauna are concerned). I imagine maintaining Ca/alk levels will be more important than in my previous tanks. Can I make due using Kalkwasser to replace evaporation, or do I NEED something more high-tech/high-maintenance? What else??? Sorry for the laundry list of questions -- if it's easier, please direct me to good threads or links. Thanks for any tips you can give me.
First SPS tank; need basic advice
- Thread starter apurintun
- Start date
wentreefgirl
New member
Very important, i know its getting a set up idea but make sure when your up and running you dip every coral you get. WIth sps come a new breed of pests.
Serioussnaps
New member
yes...Kalk is a good idea with a smaller/medium sized tank
if i can give my opinion......NO SHORT SAND BED!!!!!
either DSB or BB...the SSB lacks the benefits of either of these methods and has all the downfalls....feel free to ask my why i say this but i beg you not to do a SSB in a smaller tank...you are asking for APITA....
lots of flow...why not a closed loop and Tunzes????????????
go to www.innovativeaquatics.com
check out dosers
if i can give my opinion......NO SHORT SAND BED!!!!!
either DSB or BB...the SSB lacks the benefits of either of these methods and has all the downfalls....feel free to ask my why i say this but i beg you not to do a SSB in a smaller tank...you are asking for APITA....
lots of flow...why not a closed loop and Tunzes????????????
go to www.innovativeaquatics.com
check out dosers
Ok, I'll bite: why so adamant about no SSB? I thought if I used fine sand (to keep most detritus on top), employed some detritus-consuming "stirrers" (eg, nassarius, cerith, etc.) and had good, bottom-scouring flow, that I wouldn't have problems (that's essentially what I have in my current tank; although the sand is deeper, I don't think it's sufficiently undisturbed to qualify as a DSB -- for one thing, I have a sand-sifting star, which I understand is a real no-no for a DSB). I know you don't get dentrification in a SSB... otherwise, what's wrong with the above thinking? And if I take your advice and go DSB (I just don't like BB), am I right that I should keep the stirrers to a minimum? And what is "minimum"? Can I at least have some sand-dwelling snails? Thanks.
And how much flow is a good place to start? I was thinking a minimum of two very-high-output, wide-nozzle (terminology?) powerheads, like Tunze 6060s (?). The sump/refugium pump will add a little bit, but mostly I was thinking 2 or possibly 3 big powerheads on a wavemaker. Is that enough to start? (I understand that if I'm successful, I will need to augment as my corals grow).
And for lights I'm leaning toward a 5 or 6 bulb t-5 arrangement... sound OK? Or should I absolutely go MH?
And for lights I'm leaning toward a 5 or 6 bulb t-5 arrangement... sound OK? Or should I absolutely go MH?
wentreefgirl
New member
I have less then an inch of sand. My tank isnt unhappy for it.
cwegescheide
YOU have been ignored!
You have described my tank to a T. I've also got a SSb and no problems. My reef is doing great. Its been running about a year or so now. Your main concern after the things you have already mentioned is your Alk/Ca and MG supplementation. In the beginning I bet Kalk will keep up with your tank but as you get more coraline and sps in the tank you will find it doesn't take long at all for your levels to decline. Thats the hardest part to maintaining a nice reef if you ask me. I use a Ca reactor and Kalk and still find it difficult to keep my Alk/Ca at a constant level.
Luck is always good too. Also choose a good salt mix. FWIW I use Tropic Marin.
Have fun,
Chris
Luck is always good too. Also choose a good salt mix. FWIW I use Tropic Marin.
Have fun,
Chris
wentreefgirl
New member
I have had this tank set up for a year but its the same sand bed I had from my 55 gal which was set up for 4 before that. I just take my turkey baster and fluff it up about once a week. I use marine s.a.t for extra nitrifying bacteria. Started using it for hair algae. Then got my phosban reactor and havent had a problem since. I still use it just because.
I hadn't thought about salt -- I've always used Reef Crystals. Is Tropic Marin considered superior? And who makes a good Ca reactor for a smallish tank? I think I will go w/ Kalk in the early going and add a reactor if/when it seems necessary (if my levels seem to be drifting lower).
FWIW most salts with a good rep will do just fine. If you look at polls etc..... most people, including myself, use IO. TM is supposed to be an excellent salt. I also know people who swear by Kent. The thing to remember with salt is don't start using every new salt that comes out and is supposed to be the "next great thing". In fact giving any new products a good year to play out before you try is a good idea but you probably allready know that. Do a search for some of the salt polls here....lots of em through the years. Keeping sps is really pretty easy if you give them good water quality, good flow, good lighting(I would suggest MH with VHO atinic supplimentation, you can have a nice tank with T5's etc...but allmost everyone agrees MH are a superior light source) and stable temps and parameters. IMO starting with tank raised frags will make your experience much more successfull and enjoyable.
If you keep detritus from building up and buy a good skimmer(one area not to skimp on, Euroreef makes a great product if you are looking at NW's, becketts are another good option to consider if you haven't allready) you shouldn't have to use phosphate removers. IMO Fe based P removers are to be avoided.....too many bad experiences and IMO they are just not necessary.
A SSB will work fine but IME will be more work than a DSB or BB. It will be very important to keep it clean and IME you will eventually get detritus building up in the sand under the rocks that is impossible to remove and will make your nitrates, and possibly your phosphate, slowly rise.
hth and good luck, Chris
If you keep detritus from building up and buy a good skimmer(one area not to skimp on, Euroreef makes a great product if you are looking at NW's, becketts are another good option to consider if you haven't allready) you shouldn't have to use phosphate removers. IMO Fe based P removers are to be avoided.....too many bad experiences and IMO they are just not necessary.
A SSB will work fine but IME will be more work than a DSB or BB. It will be very important to keep it clean and IME you will eventually get detritus building up in the sand under the rocks that is impossible to remove and will make your nitrates, and possibly your phosphate, slowly rise.
hth and good luck, Chris
<i>IMO starting with tank raised frags will make your experience much more successfull and enjoyable.</i>
I second that remark. I've started with small frags...they're cheaper and much more forgiving. And to see the color change and early signs of growth is extremely rewarding.
I second that remark. I've started with small frags...they're cheaper and much more forgiving. And to see the color change and early signs of growth is extremely rewarding.
Frankysreef
Active member
I have a ssb, and I have no problems... I also have 2 seio 1100's and 2 seio 1500's with 3600 gph return flow...
The only issue I have with the sand bed at this point is my flow is so much that a foot wide section in the center of my tank is vacant of sand....
But I put my foot wide galaxea coral there, and it looks great and is very happy.
I like the sand for the fact the microfauna and worms and my wrasse bury in it.... And I like the white look.
I dont like the BB look of multicolor pink and dirt.. sand always stays white.
The only issue I have with the sand bed at this point is my flow is so much that a foot wide section in the center of my tank is vacant of sand....
But I put my foot wide galaxea coral there, and it looks great and is very happy.
I like the sand for the fact the microfauna and worms and my wrasse bury in it.... And I like the white look.
I dont like the BB look of multicolor pink and dirt.. sand always stays white.
Frankysreef
Active member
you can always do the ssb for looks, and do the dsb in a fuge. I have sand in my fuge too...
Serioussnaps
New member
OK...LIGHTING ISSUE...i think T5 would be a great option for the 75(6 bulb Tek) if not the best...you could consider 175 or 250 MH's on that but i like T5's and they are best used IMO on smaller tanks to reap the benefits of T5.
If you decided on a 90G you will likely need some MH PAR monsters....IME 90G and my old 90G are very deep...deeper than tanks of 120 and 180 g's ...just the way they are designed ...they seem to be more square...T5s work great on my 55 which is 20 or 21 inches deep and that is why...a 75 g is teh same depth just further from front to back...you may need some 250 MH's or 400's on the 90....
i chose t5 because i have a shallow small tank which will be my SPS tank and i avoid heat from MH....no chller...a chller would be necessary on my 55 with mh IMO and wasnt trying to dish it out..
my vote is if you get a 75g get T5's and a 90 some good 250W MH's
anyone with me on that????
ON TO THE SANDBED/SUBSTRATE ISSUE....AND HERE I HAVE A BONE TO PICK
the reason i say no SSB ----deitrus accumulates and on a smaller tank(ie 75/90g) you are going to have a hell of a battle with nuisance algaes....my husbandry and WC habits rival anyone here on RC and no matter what i did with a SSB on RC i had to deal with some algal growth
SSB just doesnt have denitrifiction that a DSB does....the waste just rots...and no matter how much WCing you do you dont get near all of it out...you just dont....yes in SSB i say you should get stirrers
DSB---i like it for obvious functional reasons but i dont like having 1/4 of my tank taken up by this huge SB which turns black underneath over time...
SSB---only bonus is the beautiful look of sand....however...if you are dong SPS you will have alot of flow and you will have a tank that is part Sand and part BB...the sand will blow around ....also ask yourself this----WHERE ON AN ACROPORA/SPS REEF AREA IN THE OCEAN DO YOU SEE SAND 15-35" DOWN?? YOU DONT....SPS ARE HIGH UP AND FAR AWAY FROM THE SAND
The only way i will do DSB is in a fuge because i dont like all the space it takes up and to me it looks worse in the display than BB ...i am with you that SSB looks the best in display....but for me BB and the religious WC's ALLOW ME TO EXPORT THE WASTE
bb doesnt alllow waste to accumulate like SSB but doesnt break ti down like DSB...it has the negative of SSB and lacks the positive of DSB...but has a positive of being able to siphon it out as needed weekly **** even bi weekly so it has a positive where SSB is negative..
With DSB you can have stirrers but you only want them to stir the top 1/4 to 1/2" of the DSB because underneath is where the sulfides and sulfates lurk and if released you are looking at a dead tank in short order----
i have run all 3 of the systems...SSB, DSB and now BB
I like BB best, DSB, then SSB last....
i would like a combo of BB in tank and DSB in fuge but right now cant accomodate it and havent mastered BB as is right now...
the only way i do SSB again is if i have a HUGEEEEEEE TANK....DILUTION OF THE POLUTION....
me and nuisance algae just dont get down....therefore me and SSB just dont get down...
not saying anyone else's way is wrong...to each his own...just sharing my experiences and maybe you can brainstorm off of them!!
here is another link for you:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=920525
If you decided on a 90G you will likely need some MH PAR monsters....IME 90G and my old 90G are very deep...deeper than tanks of 120 and 180 g's ...just the way they are designed ...they seem to be more square...T5s work great on my 55 which is 20 or 21 inches deep and that is why...a 75 g is teh same depth just further from front to back...you may need some 250 MH's or 400's on the 90....
i chose t5 because i have a shallow small tank which will be my SPS tank and i avoid heat from MH....no chller...a chller would be necessary on my 55 with mh IMO and wasnt trying to dish it out..
my vote is if you get a 75g get T5's and a 90 some good 250W MH's
anyone with me on that????
ON TO THE SANDBED/SUBSTRATE ISSUE....AND HERE I HAVE A BONE TO PICK
the reason i say no SSB ----deitrus accumulates and on a smaller tank(ie 75/90g) you are going to have a hell of a battle with nuisance algaes....my husbandry and WC habits rival anyone here on RC and no matter what i did with a SSB on RC i had to deal with some algal growth
SSB just doesnt have denitrifiction that a DSB does....the waste just rots...and no matter how much WCing you do you dont get near all of it out...you just dont....yes in SSB i say you should get stirrers
DSB---i like it for obvious functional reasons but i dont like having 1/4 of my tank taken up by this huge SB which turns black underneath over time...
SSB---only bonus is the beautiful look of sand....however...if you are dong SPS you will have alot of flow and you will have a tank that is part Sand and part BB...the sand will blow around ....also ask yourself this----WHERE ON AN ACROPORA/SPS REEF AREA IN THE OCEAN DO YOU SEE SAND 15-35" DOWN?? YOU DONT....SPS ARE HIGH UP AND FAR AWAY FROM THE SAND
The only way i will do DSB is in a fuge because i dont like all the space it takes up and to me it looks worse in the display than BB ...i am with you that SSB looks the best in display....but for me BB and the religious WC's ALLOW ME TO EXPORT THE WASTE
bb doesnt alllow waste to accumulate like SSB but doesnt break ti down like DSB...it has the negative of SSB and lacks the positive of DSB...but has a positive of being able to siphon it out as needed weekly **** even bi weekly so it has a positive where SSB is negative..
With DSB you can have stirrers but you only want them to stir the top 1/4 to 1/2" of the DSB because underneath is where the sulfides and sulfates lurk and if released you are looking at a dead tank in short order----
i have run all 3 of the systems...SSB, DSB and now BB
I like BB best, DSB, then SSB last....
i would like a combo of BB in tank and DSB in fuge but right now cant accomodate it and havent mastered BB as is right now...
the only way i do SSB again is if i have a HUGEEEEEEE TANK....DILUTION OF THE POLUTION....
me and nuisance algae just dont get down....therefore me and SSB just dont get down...
not saying anyone else's way is wrong...to each his own...just sharing my experiences and maybe you can brainstorm off of them!!
here is another link for you:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=920525
Excellent! A couple questions about the DSB: how deep is deep? And do nassarius/ceriths stay in the top half-inch, or do you need to use screen? If the latter, then won't your high-flow from Tunzes, etc. cause the same kind of problem mentioned with regard to SSB? (i.e., you'll get places w/ no top-layer of sand -- just screen.) I just can't get used to the look of a BB -- I'm OK w/ the look of a DSB as long as we're talking 3 or 4 inches (not 6 or more). As for lights, I agree w/ your shallow vs. deep tank comments -- If I go w/ a shallow tank, I may stick with the t5s.
Frankysreef
Active member
SSB - - > lots of critters!!!!!
I pulled out some caulerpa to put in my display to feed my tangs today... I shook it in the water, and the amount of copepods, amphipods and WORMS were all over the place.
It was a little gross, but then a little cool.... My halichoeres wrasse just goes to town on the bristleworms.. loves them... so he is munching on those, anthias on the pods, and tangs on the algae...
What I am saying is don't forget about the benthic zooplankton population.... You should have it established before adding too many predators...
Natural foods thing for me !
And the sand bed works great for breeding of the little critters.... My sand is always white... White in my 225, and was white in my 135..
I actually moved my sandbed from my 135 to my 225 because Iam soo happy with it...
I was pulling out worms that were 3 feet long....Talk about a sand stirrer!!!!
I have t5's over my frag tank, and mh over my display... they both work... the MH work better and have better color.. but the t5 dont produce so much heat...
Have fun...
I pulled out some caulerpa to put in my display to feed my tangs today... I shook it in the water, and the amount of copepods, amphipods and WORMS were all over the place.
It was a little gross, but then a little cool.... My halichoeres wrasse just goes to town on the bristleworms.. loves them... so he is munching on those, anthias on the pods, and tangs on the algae...
What I am saying is don't forget about the benthic zooplankton population.... You should have it established before adding too many predators...
Natural foods thing for me !
And the sand bed works great for breeding of the little critters.... My sand is always white... White in my 225, and was white in my 135..
I actually moved my sandbed from my 135 to my 225 because Iam soo happy with it...
I was pulling out worms that were 3 feet long....Talk about a sand stirrer!!!!
I have t5's over my frag tank, and mh over my display... they both work... the MH work better and have better color.. but the t5 dont produce so much heat...
Have fun...
