First Tank with Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration

[Subsea]

INSPIRED from: Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration : All Natural self sufficient tank

hi all,
this is what i am planning as a staring point....

180cm Long x 75cm wide x 65cm tall tank (roughly 6ft L x 2.5ft W x 2ft T) with a Bean Animal overflow system. with a sump tank (multiple sumps possible) underneath being 160cm Long x 60cm wide x 65cm tall (roughly 5ft L x 2ft W x 2ft T).

At this time this is only an information gathering thread.

What I would also like suggestions on is....What should this setup contain as a self sufficient reef tank. I would love to make the sumps to be a display as well if possible.

List of equipments would also be nice to have.

@kedar301
After rereading your first post, I better understand why you are all over the place with techniques that don’t always work together: You have never set up a marine tank. Do you have any fresh water aquarium experience?

Do you have a link for “intelligent design / natural filtration” for us to better understand what you mean by those terms. I interpret “intelligent design” as the “origin of the species”.

 

[JohnL]

FWIW, there's a lot of research showing macro alga can have a negative impact on corals.

Does this apply to all types of macro algae Tim? Specifically, chaetomorpha?

 

[Subsea]

Does this apply to all types of macro algae Tim? Specifically, chaetomorpha?

As a generalization, soft macros leak more DOC in the form of glucose/sugar than firm macro like Catomorphy. However, Chaeto leaks some DOC, probably the least of all the macro algaes. @Timfish Have you ever seen a graph comparing exudates of differrent macro algae?

This point is similar to the term thermal enrichment or thermal pollution. Depends on system dynamics.

 

[Subsea]

Does this apply to all types of macro algae Tim? Specifically, chaetomorpha?

John,
This link is written specifically on four macro algaes common in the Caribbean.

Macroalgae Decrease Growth and Alter Microbial Community Structure of the Reef-Building Coral, Porites astreoides

With the continued and unprecedented decline of coral reefs worldwide, evaluating the factors that contribute to coral demise is of critical importance. As coral cover declines, macroalgae are becoming more common on tropical reefs. Interactions between these macroalgae and corals may alter the...

journals.plos.org

Conclusions​

This study is among the first to empirically and quantitatively analyze shifts in coral-associated microbial communities resulting from competition with macroalgae. We show here that the presence of certain macroalgal species reduces the growth rate of the coral P. astreoides. These reduced coral growth rates occurred concomitantly with changes in their microbial community composition. Furthermore, contact with macroalgae can relax coral-microbial specificity, allowing microbial taxa that are not normally associated or exceedingly rare with a given coral host to become established. Given the increasing abundance of macroalgae in tropical coastal environments, interactions among macroalgae, corals, and microbes are likely to play a role in shaping the ecology of future reefs.

 

[Subsea]

What i am thinking then is to have 3 sections in my 5x2x2 ft sump....1st cryptic section, 2nd lighted sump and then a tiny little return pump area.

Now for both cryptic and lighted sumps what do i need.....

Cryptic sump with lots of rock rubbles & lighted sump with DSB+macro algage? and a single plenum to under entire section covering both area of cryptic and lighted.

What are the thoughts?

If you understood the cryptic sponge cycle, your lighted refugium should feed DOC to cryptic zone Instead of cryptic zone feeding lighted cycle. Also, cryptic zone filtration does not need high flow.

If you design your display tank livestock with few predators you can get a display refugium as a main display or better have display refugium side by side with display tank. You could even partition your 6’ long tank with a display refugium overflowing into display tank with a reverse flow ug filter using 2” of arroggonite.

 

[JohnL]

Thank you Patrick @Subsea

 

[Timfish]

Does this apply to all types of macro algae Tim? Specifically, chaetomorpha?

Reading through the research, to some degree, it applies to all labile DOC released by either algae or corals. (As coral microbiomes are species specific differences in labile DOC released by corals might explian why some corals are found primarily with other species of the same genus, Acropora microclados being one example.) One variable that is in reefer's favor is cryptic sponges can remove labile DOC 1000X times faster than the bacterioplankton in the water column. But to answer you question directly, cheato appears to produce far less labile DOC than hair algae or turf algae. Halimeda is somwwhere in the middle.

 

[JohnL]

But to answer you question directly, cheato appears to produce far less labile DOC than hair algae or turf algae. Halimeda is somwwhere in the middle.

Thanks Tim.

 

[Subsea]

While I no longer can find the research, the scenario included an IndoPacific hard coral that counter acted fish grazing biochemically with noxious taste to fish. Second phase of research moved a macro algae colony next to the coral. After two weeks fish starting grazing on hard coral.

The conclusion of the research was that coral used gene expression to adjust biochemistry to counteract macro algae invasion at the expense of counter acting fish grazing. So, as @Timfish pointed out in his research, the genetic response is associated with the bacteria in the overall “coral holibiont”. With nature, nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

[Subsea]

Does that not add salt to the soil?

Minerals and salts are lumped together and tomatoes grow with it. That’s why organic gardeners compost the soil,

I also add Epsom salt, magnesium sulphate, and gypsum, calcium sulphate: to garden.

 

[Subsea]

Do you self collect sometimes like Paul does?

I always wonder after reading your posts what the correct proportion of skimmer (surf), cryptic (deep ocean?), shallow (macro algae and coral) and fish would be. I have never seen a post about simulating the platonic cycle in top water mid ocean that many things need to complete their lifecycle though.
Maybe if I win the lottery

While I do not scuba dive, I have collected in salt water marshes and also on the jetties when I attended Texas Maritime Academy in Galveston on Pelican Island. When I mentored Austin Reef Club, we did collection trip to Corpus Christie.

Mid ocean planktonic life cycle would require much energy, I focus on bottom of food chain beginning with pico plankton in detritus and “MULM”. Here is what @Paul B says about that:

"Mulm" in a reef tank

I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be p...

wamas.org

 

[Subsea]

My

My current setup lacks any of this. I have high flow throughout and the sumps stay clean. This was a side effect of not wanting the stock tanks to have surface files in them so I stuck wave makers in them to agitate the surface.

@wvned Why mid ocean planktonic life cycle? I have noted mid Atlantic phytoplankton blooms because of Sahara Desert dust.

If you would, provide link for your tank thread.

“Agitate the surface”
Air/water interface and gas exchange cannot be overemphasised.

Detritus & cryptic sponges complete nutriment management in my reef systems: algae, bacteria and cryptic sponges.