Fish Dropping Like Flies

[Vincent Moore]

Hello again everyone. I have come back for some help to a problem I don't know the solution of. All my fish are dieing and they are doing so one by one. I will post my water readings in a moment but let me tell you how it has been going.

Usually the fish die at night while I am sleeping. A few times they have been dead after going to work for a 4 hour shift. The fish eat fine and show now signs of problems. On occasion the fish have lost their color and turned ghost white nearly and then died. My LFS owner (I am in China where everything is different) came to my home and tested the water himself. He said the PH was low. So we started adding PH increasing agent. It says on the bottle to only attempt an increase once per day. I have been adding the agent daily for 5 days now with no change in the PH level. Something is keeping it from changing it seems. Currently I have in the tank loads of coral that seem to be fine, a sea horse that spends most his time sleeping on the bottom, a star fish stuck to the glass, 2 shrimp, Nemo, an all yellow fish, and a zebra brown and yellow striped fish. I don't know the kinds so sorry folks. Ok, so here are the water readings. Now the Internet tells me some things are high and some are low. The water is a little different here. So here they are

Ammonia Zero
PH 7.7
NO3 50
NO2 Zero
KH 8
Salinity 1.022

Ok, some say the NO3 should be about 12. Others say its ok. Same with the PH. Some say its low and others say its on the low side of ok. What I cant figure out is why the NO3 wont come down with water changes and the PH wont go up no matter how much increasing agent I add. Please help. I have lost about $200 in fish now and am at a loss as to why.

Thanks
Vincent

 

[Victor1046]

You don't mention doing any water changes if you have not it seems that is the direction to go instead of dosing. If possible try and use R/O DI water and if you can get some Instand Ocean.
Try a 20% water change every 3 days and test with good test kits like Salifert. This should bring your levels to where they should be.
Good luck

 

[Victor1046]

Also how old is your tank seems from your experience it is fairly new and maybe you have moved too quickly ????

 

[kmf507]

Your salinity seems low. Most people I talk to recommend 1.025.

 

[Vincent Moore]

I have done many water changes. I have been doing 20% each time. The aquarium is fairly new. About 2 months old. I have no access to R/O DI water. What I use is bottled drinking water. It's the best we can get here. (The world bank and Chinese government are in a little trouble for covering up deaths related to poor water quality)

Salinity is low?? Most sites I have seen say about 1.022-1.024. I would like some other feed back on that as well. Is my salinity low?? I never knew some kept it that high.

Thanks everyone
Vincent

 

[jon99]

I agree with victor. Take it a little slower. SOunds like you tossed a whole mess of critters in that tank too!!! What are you using for filtration? You will need a dang good protein skimmer for such a high bioload and lotsa live rock too. I'd do maybe one bigger (40%) water change and then regularly do 10% a week. Otherwise your nitrates will always be high and pH will be low. Also make sure when your doing your water changes that you match the temp and salinity of your new water exactly to that of the tank. I have learned that at times when something is up with the water (fish die, or corals are shriveld up, etc) and you can't pinpoint what, do a large water change (again make sure your new water has same temp, salinity, and pH (not in your case) as your old water, and run some fresh carbon. If it is infact something in the water this will usually take care of it. IF not keep searching and narrowing it down to the source.

 

[faulkincanyon]

Id use distilled water before drinking water...drinking water has minerals and such...distilled is about as pure as you will get.

 

[PJSEA]

Is your house sealed up or do you get good air exchange with the outside? The buildup of CO2 indoors will cause pH to drop to low levels.
See here for more info:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/chem.htm

 

[kevin2000]

There is nothing in your posted water specs that would kill fish.

A picture would help.

Not sure about the "ghost white" description. You should note that fish that have external parasites often exude excess mucus in an attempt to shed those parasite. Fish with brooklynella (aka clown fish disease) are noted for generating enough extra mucus that if sometimes looks like skin shedding off.

Heres a link with descriptions of some of the most common diseases .. might help

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/fishdiseases.html

Heres a link with pictures of fish with some of the common diseases.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127010

I am unsure of what problem your fish have .. maybe the above will help. I am sure that .. Too much .. Too quick - is part of the problem.

Good luck.

Edit: Make sure you are using a Chlorine/Chloramine remover .. chances are good that your bottled water has been treated with one or the other.

 

[Vincent Moore]

Thanks again guys. I have already decided that I am not adding anything else to the tank. Mainly since I am flushing money down the toilet. I will see if I can get some pics up for everyone tomorrow. So please check back here soon. I do have a lot of coral and rock. Again, I will post some pics tomorrow.

Vincent

 

[Freed]

Have you been QTing anything new that you put in the tank? If not it would be a good idea to do so. That way you can minimize introducing anything into the tank that shouldn't be there. You may want to take the fish out and QT them with some type of meds. If it sounded like ich I would suggest hypo but that's not what it sounds like.

 

[wizzbane15]

you wanted some feedback on SG:

I keep the SG of my tank at atleast 1.026. If you are losing fish one by one, you need to seriously consider that there is a parasite or bacteria of some sort in you tank. I agrre with Frred in that Ich does not sound like the culprit.

You may want to get you corals out and hypo the whole tank over the course a couple weeks.

 

[GoingPostal]

I would say it sounds like your tank is just way too new, did you cycle the tank properly. After cycling you need to add things slowly, one fish every few weeks to allow your bacteria to catch up, fish often don't do well in brand new tanks and it sounds like yours is fully stocked already. What kind of fish have you been losing? I would not add anything for a few months, let your tank settle a little and mature, raise salinity to 1.025 or 1.026, which is more like seawater and better for corals and inverts and figure out why your nitrates are not lowering.

 

[Lotus99]

Your pH seems low. Was your reading taken in the morning or at night? I'd suspect you have low oxygen at night.

What's your flow/powerhead situation?

 

[WaterKeeper]

The "attempting to create the nitrogen cycle", in your signature, statement probably says it all.

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10290229#post10290229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jon99
I agree with victor. Take it a little slower. SOunds like you tossed a whole mess of critters in that tank too!!! What are you using for filtration? You will need a dang good protein skimmer for such a high bioload and lotsa live rock too. I'd do maybe one bigger (40%) water change and then regularly do 10% a week. Otherwise your nitrates will always be high and pH will be low. Also make sure when your doing your water changes that you match the temp and salinity of your new water exactly to that of the tank. I have learned that at times when something is up with the water (fish die, or corals are shriveld up, etc) and you can't pinpoint what, do a large water change (again make sure your new water has same temp, salinity, and pH (not in your case) as your old water, and run some fresh carbon. If it is infact something in the water this will usually take care of it. IF not keep searching and narrowing it down to the source.

The maximum bioload of a new tank depends not only on whether it was cycled, but also on how it was cycled. Has there ever been a high peak in ammonia during cycling? If not, the nitrification capacity is going to be marginal with each addition of livestock. Ammonia test kit may not be accurate.

I also question more the lack of separation in time between adding invertebrates and adding fish than the absolute bioload.

There are other possibilities for rapid death of fish. Poor collection method and/or/thus abrupt progress of internal bacterial (or fungal) infection (for example TB) is one. Poisoning by unintended toxin is another.

Your salinity is not low. Ph is a little.

 

[rbursek]

An other reason to stop WallMart from the China importing LOL.

 

[Lubu]

I would think it's the salt or the food. Beware, there are lots of counterfeit salt in the Chinese reef trade. A quality salt should not have the PH of 7.7.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The ph is low but 7.7 would not be too stressful for fish.

7.7 may well be too low for inverebrates but that is not his main problem.

Low ph is unlikely the CAUSE of his fish problem, IMO

Make sure that gaseous exchange is enough. Sometimes one overlooks the most basic.

 

[Vincent Moore]

I am going to go with the aquarium is too new and I am going too fast thing. The nitrogen cycle is over and I need to change what it says under my name. I don't know how high the ammonia got during the cycle as I did not have an ammonia test kit due to them not being available here in China. Some friends of mine picked me up some on a trip back to the States. Anyway, I will raise the salinity as there seems to be a lot of people indicating its too low. I changed my powerhead to a smaller one (fish dieing before I did this too) as the other one was just too strong even at its lowest setting. The coral was beeing blown off the rocks no matter what direction I pointed it and the fish hid inside the rocks all day to say out of the current. By switching to a smaller head, the plants are moving around just fine and so are the fish. I can see air bubbles on some of my rocks to it appears there is enough oxygen in the water. I might search ebay and see if I can find an oxygen test kit and have a look to see what it is. My other issue is I feel as if I am over feeding the fish. Some web sites say feed 2 or 3 times a day. While the ammonia hasn't spiked on me from feeding, it often crosses my mind the fish have died from eating too much.

I will not add or change anything for another 4 weeks. I hope no more fish die. In the mean time I will report my water readings and take pictures as I can.