Flat Back Hex LED Options

[jackers]

I am looking for some help on picking an LED setup on my tank.

Here are the dimensions:

And here is an older picture of my tank and hood:

The top of my canopy is about 6 inches above the water line.

So here is the problem, even though my tank is 48 inches long, it is only 18 inches front to back. The side panels are 10 inches then they slope in 8 more inches. So if I would buy a reefbreer photon, it would only fit if I'd put it along the very back of the hood since the unit is 47"x8".

So the question is, should I go with two Phantom16s or one Phantom32?

Or is there better options? I am open to suggestions on other brands as well, I just like the idea of customizing the LED layout and being able to fairly easily swap out LED colors.

I almost regret getting a flat back hex. The sump area is reduced, the front glass makes dialing in the variable speed power heads difficult, and now I'm struggling to get the right light fixtures. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Ron Reefman]

The 32 (IT2080) will work, but you may have some mild issues at the outside edges in the back. Getting light out 8" off both ends and being limited to how high you can raise the light off the water could be a problem.

If you do 2 16's (IT2040) how will they fit in? Will you end up with them having any space in between the fixtures (which would help get light to those wide back corners)? If they need to be right next to each other in order to fit, you gain nothing and might as well have an IT2080. If they fit and you can get 4"-8" in between the fixtures, you would be golden (it would cover the entire tank).

You could also look at BuildMyLED and get light bars of different length made to fit. They make good quality fixtures.

 

[jackers]

Good questions. I'll get the dimensions of the various units and mock some up out of cardboard and get some pictures tonight.

Can you explain how the 12" hydra with 20 LEDs or the 12" radion with 32 LEDs has the same coverage as the 16" photon16 with 55 LEDs or the 16" IT2040 with 55 LEDs? And is there a difference between the EG IT2040 and the Photon16?

I know people love the AI and Ecotech stuff, but shouldn't the EG and Photon stuff outperform those units (talking light usage, not controllability)? Obviously, the ability to control more channels on the radions and hydras are cool, but when talking just light performance, how do the EG's and Photons compare?

I'm shooting for a 3:1, maybe 4:1 ratio of blue to white. Isn't that much higher than the radians and hydras?

 

[Ron Reefman]

I don't know anything about the Hydra. I think the Radion has better leds and drives them harder to make as much light as the EG or RB fixtures with more leds. I know my radion ran at a much higher temperature than my EG fixtures. EG only pushes 2.2W-2.4W through it's 3W leds. So they run cooler and longer (like anybody will have one of these in 10 years).

The EG IT2040 and the RB Photon 16 are both made by EverGrow. The only difference is the led layout. Same situation with the IT2060 and Photon24 and the IT2080 and Photon 32.

I have 9 month old EG IT2080's over my 180g tank and they have a custome layout that is 3:1 blue to white. I now wish it was 4:1 as I can set the blues at 100% and make the tank look 10K white with the white channel (which has a lot of blues in it) at about 50%. I only want to run the minimum amount of white that I need to get to a 12K-14L look in the tank.

I don't think you'll find any manufacturer with much more than a 2:1 ratio. Even EG and RB standard fixtures. But they both offer custom layouts, or you can change them yourself if you can solder.

 

[jackers]

Ok, here are the pictures.

First, the Hydras

Next up, Photon16's

This would be the Photon32

And finally, the Radions

Which do you think would have a good spread? I'm hoping either the Photon16's or 32's so I can do a custom LED spread like you mentioned above. As a size thing, I might be best with the Radions/Hydras though.

Any opinions, Ron?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about the Hydras. The Radions are good lights, but as far as I'm concerned you pay way too much for a bunch of control that most reefers will never really need or use. I have an IT2040 over my 70g anemone tank. It has run for 9 months straight, 24/7. The built-in controller is all you need for doing great mixing. I do an 8 hour sunrise, an hour of peak midday and 8 hours of sunset. The first 2 hours of dawn and the last 3 hours of sunset are blue leds only. So my tank looks different every hour of the day. I'd go with the two 16 rather than the 32. Your fixtures are a lot closer to the sides at the back of the tank... and you save what, $660 over the Radions. That's more than you'll pay for the IT2040's!

 

[Stomatopod1701]

I would go with the 2 photon 16s, great color, controllability and price, but if you did not want to cut into your canopy I would get the build my leds as they would fit under your canopy and they could make they exactly the length that you need. BMLed has great build quality too.

 

[jackers]

Thanks!

I don't mind cutting into my canopy. I installed the fans and can easily cut out a new lid for the LEDs.

Ron,
Can you tell a difference in coral growth or coloration from your Radion days to your EG setup? From reading your posts, I don't think there is enough blue in the Radions. I like your ideas on the 4:1 blues, especially with the EGs/Photons since I can always swap out LEDs if I can't get the right color.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I had the radion over my frag tank and I have a much harder time seeing coral growth in small frags. But I'd say they were close to the same. I switched from the Radion to a EG D120 with 5:2 blue to white. That was for 4 months. Then I switched to OceanRevive Arctic S026 which are just short of 2:1... I know, I know, a step backwards. But the coverage is much better and the fixture isn't in a canopy and it looks so much better than the D120!:artist: And I can change out leds in it as well... if I ever get the time. Or move my EG IT fixtures from my 2 DT's when I get new fixtures for them!

 

[jackers]

Ok, I think I am leaning towards two Photon16's. What do you think of this bulb layout?

That gives me the following:
55 total LEDs
Channel 1
(2) 14K
(2) 10K
(2) 7.5K
(2) 4.5K
(2) 660
(2) 520

Channel 2
(4) 380
(28) 450
(8) 420

Channel 3
(3) 480 Moonlights

That's 3.58:1 Blue to White (and red and green)

 

[Ron Reefman]

The led color ratio looks really good to me. When it's done I think you will end up with a light that can run both channels fairly close to the same power settings and just be 10K overall white. That's great. But I have a couple of questions:

How do you have 12 leds on 1 channel and 40 on the other? Don't they need to be split 26 and 26? You want 26 blues on one channel (probably 450nm and 480nm) and the violet and extra blues can move to the white channel.

Channel 2 has 380nm... I know that's a typo and should be 480nm, right?

You have the red and green leds split by a white led. The red and green are going to mix with the blue and make white light (as far as our eyes are concerned). So you have RGB making white and a 14K white in between. That will be a bit of a spot light of white. You might want to keep the red and green as close together as you can, diagonal to each other on the same channel rather than split by a different led. And if you keep them separated, it would be better if they were split by something other than white. It's a small point though.

 

[jackers]

Thanks for all the tips. I'm new to this and that is exactly the advice I am looking for!

It'll work on a new layout today and post it up when I get a chance.

Ron,
As you can see - our original thread slowly evaluated...
Its not true thatnwr are using SMT matrix (without white leds) only inhybrid units..
There are also Metis Hyperion S, Triton S - which are led only lamps, without t5.
And as I said manyweeks ago - you will ser, that our research&development will be copied soon by others manufacturers also - which start producing led panels without white leds(and with discrete spectrum built from many dedicated leds colors) or with only one white led....
It will be the same idea, but they will say - its not a copy! We have white leds!(only one, but its never mind)..

@tdb320
Reduce qty of white leds to only one, or two pcs.
Increase amount of blue leds - they are much more important than royal blues..
Add some 580nm and few reds for increase CRI index..

So I'm thinking I'll have to cut down my 450s and increase my 480s. I'm also thinking of cutting my whites down even further after reading this. I'll do some playing around and post up my next frankenstein.

P.S. How hard is it to swap out LEDs if I get too blue?

 

[Ron Reefman]

I think the swap from 450's to 480's is an OK idea, just don't go too far. The spectrum above 450 is more for reflected light we see when we look at the coral, and it doesn't take too much. The 400-450 is both for looks and for chlorophyll a to use in photosynthesis in the zooxanthellae to grow food.

 

[jackers]

Ok, originally, I had (28) 450's and (4) 480's.

Are you thinking (21) 450's and (11) 480's?

 

[jackers]

Trying this over my phone, if it doesn't work, I'll upload it from my computer tonight.

How's this look?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hang on... I've been doing this so much I'm not paying attention. You are doing IT2040 or Photon 16's right? Then why are you using a D120 or Value Fixture layout with 55 leds? The IT2040 & Photon 16 only has 48 leds and 2 channels not 3. The moonlights are 3 of the blue channel and when you get down to 10% power 21 of the blues go off and the 3 that remain are moonlights and can run from 10% down to 0%.

Or have you gotten info from somebody doing a different fixture? If so, who?

 

[jackers]

Phantom16.

Here is a link: http://reefbreeders.com/it2040.html

Channel 1; (12) 4500K neutral whites, (6) 480nm blues, (2) 660nm reds, and (6) 410-420nm violets.

Channel 2; (26) 450nm royal blue,

Channel 3; (3) 480nm blue moonlights

Total of 55 3 watt LEDs.

And here is a link to their layout. http://reefbreeders.com/uploads/Photon16.xlsx

Five rows of 11 LEDs

The Photon16 is one of the first lights to come with a controller at a reasonable price. These units are high quality, utilizing Bridgelux diodes from the best bins available. Each unit has a heat sink, is CE certified, and fully backed with our 2 year USA warranty. The controller has an LCD touch interface, and allows for dimming in half hour, or one hour intervals. You can program a sunrise, sunset, and moon cycle, using the remote, or the touch keys on the unit. The whites/colors, royal blues, and moonlights are all separately programmable. The fixtures come with fully adjustable, and tilt-able hanging kits. The exact color combination is as follows: channel 1; 12 4500K neutral whites, 6 480nm blues, 2 660nm reds, and 6 410-420nm violets. Channel 2; 26 450nm royal blue, Channel 3; 3 480nm blue moonlights, for a total of 55 3 watt LEDs. Each unit measures about 16" long x 8.5" wide x 2.5" tall. The fixture comes with 60, 90, or 120 degree optics, and our premium hanging kit (which other companies charge $50 for) for only $319 shipped. We put 120 degree optics on the moonlights and 660nm reds.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Wow, do I feel stupid! :headwally: Back when I bought my IT2040 they were as I described them above. I wasn't aware they changed the design... I need to pay more attention! Thanks for hitting me over the head with that! :beer:

BTW, mine came with 450nm moonlights and I found that even at 2% power they are brighter than I liked. So I swapped the middle one out for 420nm. Now I wish I had done all 3.

 

[jackers]

Not at all, Ron. I was just worried I got them confused! I'm taking a crash course in LED fixtures and layout design, so if anyone feels stupid its me!

Thanks for the tip on the moonlights, I'll swap in the 420's while taking them from the original (8) I had on channel 1.

My last design had a 2.9:1 ratio. I was playing around and saw if I pulled two more whites (I was thinking (1) 10K and (1) 14K it would take me to 3.58:1. You think I could still get the 10K white look with that? And for my last design, I have (4) reds up from (2) after reading this from Pac Sun:

Add some 580nm and few reds for increase CRI index

Think that is too much red?

 

[Ron Reefman]

I assume you are counting the red and greens in as white for that 3.58:1 ratio? You have 41 blue (do the 3 moonlights run completely independent of the blue channel?), 8 white and 6 red/green combo (almost white LOL). I look at it as 38:8 which is 4.75:1 (or if you add in the moonlights it's 41:8 which is just over 5:1) and with that I'd say the 4 reds and 2 greens are a very wise choice.

I have no experience getting that high a ratio of blue to white. My best guess is you are very close to, if not just beyond not being able to get a 10K overall look with the blues being at or above the white setting.