Flow for the new 210 - diagram

[platax88]

Hello,

As some of you know from my other thread, I am upgrading to a 210 (6'X2'X30") and i wanted to make sure that my existing flow would be sufficient.

Here is what i got:

- 2 Tunze 6100 on aquasurf on side panels, top and towards front facing each other. (2 X 3000 gph)
- 2 Maximods on side panels, back towards bottom facing each other (2 X 1200 gph)
- Return pump split (1000 gph after headloss) mounted on overflows
- 2 Seios 820, mounted on a Sea Swirl(no flow, just using the swirl feature) facing opposite angles, and turning 45 degrees on the swirl.

This gives me a total of 11,040 gph or 53x.

The rockwork will be pillars/minimal and i will go BB. What do you guys think? My other option is ditching the sea-swirl and going with a closed loop on penductors. Trying to avoid spending any more mula though Here is a diagram, what do you think?

Thanks all!
Jack

 

[platax88]

Change of plans.... i found a good deal on a pcx 55 pump.

What about ditching the sea-swirl return. Instead use a pcx 55 pump as the return with penductors attached? Will this give me an ok flow rate through the sump and good flow through penductors at 6' head?

So to recap:

pcx 55 pump return with penductors split to either side of tank or centered
2 Tunze 6100 on Aquasurf
2 Maxi-mods 1200

Here's a new diagram:

Do you think that the Gen-x pcx 55 will be enough to power two penductors as a return? We are talking around 6' of head.

Thanks all!

Jack

 

[platax88]

no feedback?

That's not like you guys. LOL

 

[Angela Short]

Per our other thread convo... I am planning 4 tunze I have 2 6100's and 2 6000's I think. I got them used and have only been using them in the holding tanks but they crank some flow. I plan on one tunze in all 4 corners and I have 2 seio 1500's for added flow if I need it. I am not sure my return pump I got but its a big one to push all the way from under the steps about 20 ft. with I would say a good 12 ft of head. I am hopeing the tunze will be bulk of the flow I need and the seios are not needed as they are mini heaters! My temp went up a few degrees when I put them in the last tank and they pull tons of power.
I wasn't crazy about my CL and I think fishdoc just took his closed loop off I read. The price of plumbing, unions, and the pump to run it you can just pick up a few used tunzes and call it a day IMO. Those korilias are not bad for the money also and I may grab a few of them in place of the Seios for any dead spots I may have.
Not sure how the seaswirl works...

 

[platax88]

Thanks angela, for your feedback ... again

I ran into a great deal on the Gen-X pump thats why i picked it up. What i am trying to determine is if i can use it as the return and attach some penductors. So, not really a closed loop.

I do have another pump i can use for the return .. a Quiet One 6000, but i want to try to avoid using any more equipment if i can help it.

 

[fallinapart]

My Quiet One 6000 just died this past weekend

It was perfect timing as I just picked up that used Mag7, but I'm not impressed with the Quiet one 6000 it sometimes would not restart after a power outage and now it just will not run period.

 

[platax88]

Thanks man, I heard that they need cleaning often because the ceramic shaft causes calcium build-up and that's why it sometimes gets stuck.
I just picked one up on the used forum for $50 shipped with an extra impeller. Only used 8 months.

I am just debating if i will need it or not. No one seems to be able to let me know if the Gen-x 55 will be strong enough as the return with 6' head and be able to run penductors. If so, then i dont want to, or should need to, use the Quiet One.

 

[poolkeeper1]

Hey Norman you should check where you bought the QO I had one go dead kike that and they replaced it free of charge, didn't even want the dead one back. ( they had a problem with a bad batch) So maybe you'll get lucky. my 2nd one has been going for 16 months no problems.

 

[fallinapart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13773802#post13773802 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by platax88
Thanks man, I heard that they need cleaning often because the ceramic shaft causes calcium build-up and that's why it sometimes gets stuck.
I just picked one up on the used forum for $50 shipped with an extra impeller. Only used 8 months.

I am just debating if i will need it or not. No one seems to be able to let me know if the Gen-x 55 will be strong enough as the return with 6' head and be able to run penductors. If so, then i dont want to, or should need to, use the Quiet One.

I did a little looking and looks like the quiet one at 1506 gph only has a max head of 12', so your 6' head already uses 1/2 of it's capability, where as the gen-x has 1140 gph but a max head of 26.2' so seems like they both will give you close to the same water flow in the end. Of course this is NOT scientific, it is only Norman logic (flawed logic)

And the also the added benifit of the external pump is no added heat to the water from the pump. My personal opinion is go with the gen-x, but then this week I'm down on quit ones

 

[fallinapart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13773912#post13773912 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poolkeeper1
Hey Norman you should check where you bought the QO I had one go dead kike that and they replaced it free of charge, didn't even want the dead one back. ( they had a problem with a bad batch) So maybe you'll get lucky. my 2nd one has been going for 16 months no problems.

Thanks, I will do that, always good to have a back up pump laying around

 

[platax88]

Thanks Norman...

I've looked at the flow curves and they both will deliver slightly over 1,000gph at the 6' of head. The Gen-X however is a High pressure pump so it should power the two penductors just fine and in theory the flow would at very least double... I am just second guessing myself and looking for someone to agree

Anyone got penductor experience?

 

[fallinapart]

I agree of course I only have one penductor on my CL the rest are regular spread heads for a total of 4 returns

 

[platax88]

Thanks Norman!!! That's all i needed to hear

What pump are you pushing that penductor with?

 

[fallinapart]

Hammer Head Reeflo which does 5800 gph max head of 22'

 

[platax88]

WOW ... you got that on a 90 gal? is that the only flow?

Maybe i need to rethink

What do you think of my options above (the diagrams)

 

[fallinapart]

No, I also have a mag7(to chiller) and mag9(which also feeds my frag tank & any reactors I put online) and 2 tunz 6100. I probably have more flow than required, but it is hard to get too much flow. I think your design above is just fine as long as you don't cut back any, but get as much as you afford. I would split your returns as per your 1st picture, and the rest is just to not have dead spots. or sand storms

 

[DMBillies]

Jack,

You might be somewhat conflating two relatively unrelated ideas...

1. How much flow do you need in the tank?

50x in the tank seems pretty good. You can probably go higher, but I don't think 50x will be a problem. One thing you'll want to be careful with on the barebottom is keeping everything suspended and/or in places where you can easily siphon waste out. For me this meant having 4 Koralia 4's hanging on the back of the tank and blowing straight down, pushing anything that wanted to try to settle toward the front of the tank (I saw a pretty easy and slick mount mod for those that let's you get them almost 90 degrees to the glass which I can tell you more about if you are interested). Just know that anything that doesn't get skimmed out by the skimmer will then try to settle into the slowest moving areas of your sump and you'll have to siphon that stuff out during water changes (or mechanical filtration if you use it... or feed your remote DSB from those slow moving areas if you're planning one).

2. How much turnover through the sump do you need?

How big is your sump? Unless it is huge, I would guess that the Gen-X would work just fine as a return with the penductors. I'm not sure how much extra head pressure the penductors apply, but look at it this way. You'll lose some flow through the sump in exchange for more flow in the tank. I can't imagine they would cut you down below 800 gph through the sump, which in my opinion is plenty... especially if your sump design will feed the vast majority of the water from the overflows directly past your skimmer intake. Depending on what pump(s) you have on your skimmer, it very well may be close to processing 800gph or more... the only downside to that is that some of the water in the sump will be "double skimmed." If you're still turning over the volume in your tank at least 3-4x per hour I just don't think that matters. Now if you were only pumping 200gph and your skimmer was processing 800gph, you'd probably be skimming the water in the main display pretty inefficiently in comparison to what you could be doing just by adding a better return.


I'd say there are no hard and fast rules, but the Gen-X should work.

 

[platax88]

Brian,

Thanks for the detailed response. It really helps.

I am hoping that there wont be any opportunity for any waste to settle because i am planning to scape with pillars to alow 360 degree flow around the rockwork. The penductors will be attached to loc-line so i can aim them as needed to avoid this problem. I am hoping that the wave (6100s on aquasurf) will also keep things suspended while the linear flow takes it away to the overflows. One of the overflows will partially drain to my recirculating skimmer at around 350gph (1.5x volume). The rest of the flow will dump into filter socks. I think the 800gph flow through my sump (30g - 36" wide) will be plenty.

I guess it comes down to actually putting it at play. I will keep the Quiet One for now, and if anything i could always attach it as the return in the future to contribute an additional 1,000gph.

If i am indeed able to get 800gph split into two penductors, how much do you think they will accelerate?

Thanks again for taking the time man.