Flow Questions...

[stevemaxwellrn]

Hello,

I've been trying to get a 75g set up for awhile now and this is my first non "ready" tank. I've posted several questions around this set up and I think I'm about ready to add sand, rock, and all the fun stuff...but I have a few more questions about flow & equipment.

I have a 16" synergy reef overflow attached to the tank. My refigium/sump is an Eshopps R-200. I have a Reef Octopus 150 SSS protein skimmer. I also have a siphon stopper that I'll be using for my return nozzle. So the questions are...

1) The sump/refugium will hold the protein skimmer, 2 heaters, my temperature and pH probes (Apex controller), return pump, some cheato, live rock chunks, and pods. Since the skimmer can only process approx 140 gph, there isn't much sense to having a flow much higher than 140 gph through the refugium/sump, right?

2) Assuming having a flow through the refug/sump of ~ 140 gph. There is about a 3 1/2' vertical distance between the sump/refugium. I can't find any data on flow loss for the siphon stopper (and have gotten no response from customer service...lovely). Taking all this into consideration, a sicce syncra 2 return pump would be sufficient, correct?

3) Flow through the DT. I would like to have soft, LPS, & SPS coral. Is 30x DT size good to start for flow (would be 2250 gph)?

4) Since my return line will not be return many gph, I will definitely have to have at least 2 powerheads. Or would 3 be better?

Ok...I think that's enough for now

 

[Ron Reefman]

1) The sump/refugium will hold the protein skimmer, 2 heaters, my temperature and pH probes (Apex controller), return pump, some cheato, live rock chunks, and pods. Since the skimmer can only process approx 140 gph, there isn't much sense to having a flow much higher than 140 gph through the refugium/sump, right?

I would. Your refugium can still be 'cleaning' water even if the skimmer is at full capacity. And is the skimmer pulling water from the sump? If so, is it dumping the output water into a different chamber? Otherwise you might just be re-skimming some of the same water over again. Also, if you use filter socks, they can use a lot more than 140gph. I run my refugium at about 1000-1200gph and the sump at close to 3000gph. Sure, my system is bigger, but I'd be way over 140gph on almost any sump/refugium. You didn't say how big they are, but I'd look to have the sump turn over at least 10x and the refugium a bit less, probably 5-7x.

2) Assuming having a flow through the refug/sump of ~ 140 gph. There is about a 3 1/2' vertical distance between the sump/refugium. I can't find any data on flow loss for the siphon stopper (and have gotten no response from customer service...lovely). Taking all this into consideration, a sicce syncra 2 return pump would be sufficient, correct?

Since I wouldn't consider 140gph flow rate, I won't bother to look up the flow rate of a sicce pump. (BTW, you might give the specs so we don't have to look them up).

3) Flow through the DT. I would like to have soft, LPS, & SPS coral. Is 30x DT size good to start for flow (would be 2250 gph)?

Yes. That is a good starting point. If you start to get more sps and less softies you might bump that up to 40 turns.

4) Since my return line will not be return many gph, I will definitely have to have at least 2 powerheads. Or would 3 be better?

If you go with a 140gph return, I'd say 3 is a minimum. Even if you do a lot more return flow, 3 powerheads or wavemakers is a good idea. You can get ones that have the ability to control the speed and adjust them to your needs. And the more 'random' you can make the flow in the DT, the better everything does. Better food dispersal, better at keeping detritus off the rocks, etc.

Consider a DC return pump for your sump. Even a basic DC6000 can start out with low flow and still has 6 speeds so you can get up to 1500gph. They are inexpensive, quiet and run cool. I have a DC12000 in both my sumps and a 3rd runing external for a closed loop. It runs 24/7 and after 18 months it's still barely above room temp to the touch.

 

[CStrickland]

Dude. The hardest and most confusing part of planning my first tank was figuring the flow through the sump. Idk, it's one of those things that has no right answer but some people are super passionate about their opinions. I just wound up with a range of OK flow rates and then picked the pump I liked best (eheims are cheap and reliable).
Long story short, anything between 5x-10x the DT volume is probs fine. You can add a nano powerhead to the fuge if it needs more flow.

Think of the intank flow as totes separate from the return. Most people don't count it when the talk about gph per DT gallon and it makes the math hard. 30x DT volume is a good start but every tank is diff how that plays out. For example I have my powerheads hidden in the rocks so even though it's 40x by the numbers it's pretty slow moving. The way you place them makes all the diff and it's unpredictable how they will function in the water.

Also, there's a lot of variety in power heads. I used to have 3x800 gph and now have 4x520. Same amount, diff flow plan. You just have to play around with it. But get used to thinking in gph for your pumps and ph's rather than brands. It makes it easier to compare models and get advice. Like Ron said about telling us the specs. It's easier to talk about gph than make/model

 

[chimmike]

I'm a firm believer in pushing as much turnover as your overflows will allow. More turnover you have, the better your filtration can work. If the synergy overflow will allow herbie/beananimal, do it. 1" siphon, 1.5" standard drain.

 

[gottalikesharks]

I have. 120 gallon with the same Eshopps R-200, I went with the Sicce Syncra 5.0 return pump and the RO 202-S skimmer. I was always under the impression that you want 5 to 10 times aquarium volume turnover in your sump.

The r-200 does look like it flows into the refugium and skimmer compartment separately, then they both flow to the return section.

 

[Reef Frog]

For flow inside the DT, the best bet is to get adjustable DC powerheads that are easy to move. This will give the best flow for SPS/LPS and it's easy to fine tune things as your reef changes & matures. In tank circulation is different from the flow provided by your return pump and it's difficult to quantify with an exact number.

 

[stevemaxwellrn]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions everyone! I think I'm definitely going to up the flow through my sump/refugium to at least 500 gph, but likely closer to 600 gph. I also think I'm going to go with a Sicce Syncra 4.0 return pump. One of the great things with this hobby is also one of the most daunting...the variablility of EVERYTHING.

 

[scooter31707]

I was always told 3-5x turnover flow in the sump and 20-30x turnover inside the tank, depending if you have lps or sps or both.

 

[thegrun]

On a side note you should consider a baffle between your skimmer and refugium or your skimmer is going to get clogged up on a regular basis with cheato and other algae.