flow rate vs induced heat???

[byronsands]

will try to post a pic later...

Am in the process of bringing up a new system which will consist of 465g dt, ~140g, ~140g sump, external BK 300, Iwaki driving BK Red Dragon input, Barracuda main, mag 3 driving GFO reactor, mag 3 driving carbon reactor.

DT about a month behind due to issue in mfg process, so I have the system running for the past 4 weeks w/o the DT, just curing some rock, breaking in BK, pining for the DT, etc.

Only 2 small pumps in the water: 2 x mag 3 -- rest all external

Flow: DT to refug gravity feed to sump to Barracuda to DT. Reactors and skimmer pull from refug and exhaust to sump. With no DT in yet, sump is cycling back to refug.

THE PROBLEM: water temperature is around 73 with everything shutdown. Water temperature climbs to 80.5 with pumps running -- no lights anywhere, just pumps.

Is the high flow rate of the Barracuda handling only 280g raising the water temperature 7 degrees by itself???
If yes, when the 465g of the DT in the loop will that stop the heat rise?
If it's not the Barracuda, what might it be??
Is the Barracuda too large even whrn the DT is in place?

I'm getting concerned about what will happen when the system comes online if its overheating with only this...


(refug and sump are 150g Rubermaid stock tanks)

 

[James77]

Pumps will also heat the room, a 250 watt external pump is not much different than a 250 watt space heater, minus what is converted to water movement which still heats the water. You may be seeing the effects of that?

 

[byronsands]

couple of pics of the current setup...
left side of room:

right side of room:

 

[byronsands]

I don't think it's room heat because I shut everything off yesterday and let the temp drop to 73.5, then I turned back on the main only as I was heading off to bed. This morning the temp has already climbed back 75.1 -- with nothing running except the Barracuda.

I have always believed that external pumps do not add heat into the water. Seems like a bad assumption at this point.

Temp is already back to 77.4 now, but I have also turned the skimmer and reactors back on as well... again, only pumps in the water are 2xMag3 for the reactors.

the EB4 with the main pump only is reading 3.6 amps
the EB8 with the 2 shimmer pumps and 2 reactor pumps is reading 5.8 amps

so the 5 pumps are drawing 9.4 amps it appears -- again, only 2 x Mag3 in the water, should be negligible...

wish I was a mechincal engineer... just dont understand the thermadynamics of this.

 

[sirreal63]

External pumps do add heat, both directly and indirectly.

 

[byronsands]

in this case, enough to cause the noted temp rise?? apparently.

any way from this current data to predict what will be seen when the other 465g of water is added?

The DT will have 6 Radions over it plus there will be 4 more pumps in it, mp40...

and I really dont want to plumb a chiller into this thing...

I was planing to need a heater not a chiller

 

[sirreal63]

Yes the extra water volume will help greatly but there is a heat management issue in the system, how are you venting the fishroom? The heat that isn't imparted directly to the water through the pump will impart the rest to the room. What is the ambient temp of the fishroom after a full day of all pumps on?

 

[byronsands]

Good point... and it may become a problem when the DT gets installed as it will be in-wall. But at the moment, the room isn't closed up because the DT was is not there -- I'll upload another view of that direction when I get back...

But, I don't know the temp in the fish -- you found a flaw in my process

I do need to start thinking more about the ventillation that it will be in place.

 

[sirreal63]

Byron with that much water, heat and humidity management become very important. I would not call it a flaw, just a previously undocumented feature.

 

[tkeracer619]

The display will make a big difference and I think you will find once its all said and done it will be a blessing. You need to get the ventilation figured out though. An in wall tank can really destroy a house fast if its not installed properly. Can also maKe the whole house smell fishy :/

 

[byronsands]

We have an HRV unit in the ceiling in the fish room, but it's actually connected through the wall to vent adjacent rooms. I will ask the contractor that installed all of that stuff what we can modify it to exhaust the fish room or if we need a separate solution.

Don't recall specifically telling the HVAC contractors it was going to be a fish room at the time, didn't think about it being a potential issue. On our plans, I just had it listed as a storage room. The room is only 15x10 so it may become a challenge, probably should have made it larger Wont be that hard to retro in another air movement system to vent it outside if needed -- just time and money

Last system we had was much smaller and sat in the living room with everything under the tank. We started building this place about 2.5 years ago and moved in just about 6 mo ago...

The house is fully geothermal, but we have no specific air handling designed into the fish room -- my bad. I was focused on plumbing, electronics, etc and totally ignored ventilation. I can't vent the room, but I can shut the pumps down from London

 

[byronsands]

first off, let me apologize for the images in this thread -- got lazy and took them with the iPhone -- and I own a professional portrait studio, so no excuse. I promise that once this thing has inhabitants, any posted images of them will have been correctly done.

second, apologize for all of the clutter in the fish room...

front side of room:

looking at this, I can vent into the media room that the DT faces into, but that seems like a bad idea... probably best to vent out the back wall at the ceiling or to have the HRV ducted into the fish room as well. I have to find out if a salt water environment will destroy the HRV system.

 

[byronsands]

Yes the extra water volume will help greatly but there is a heat management issue in the system, how are you venting the fishroom? The heat that isn't imparted directly to the water through the pump will impart the rest to the room. What is the ambient temp of the fishroom after a full day of all pumps on?

I think you may have hit on the major contributor to heat in the tanks...

when I dropped the heat in the room to low 70's, the temp in the tanks did as well... so I need to start working on that. thanks