For all the pros on here

I think that is the best thing about this hobby and on reefcentral in general, is all the diffrent viewpoints you will get when setting up your tank. There is so much information out there, some misleading some good and some just downright bad. There really is no one way that is best since all of our systems vary. It is up to you to find out what will work in yur setup, it is also up to you to research what people are telling you so that you can a better understanding of how it will work for you. Opposing viewpoints are great, becouse it means that both ways are working for other reef keepers, how it will work for you well i dont know. But keep in mind everyones system is diffrent, what works for some wont work for others. example, the wet dry systems, i dont use one but many people swear by it. I never wanted to place on in my system mainly for the cost of it. For me its just not needed, so i bypassed it. In time you will guage how well you are doing as a reefkeeper buy how well your system is doing. Sometimes its best to step back and research every single aspect of reef keeping. While not doing anything to your tank. Lets face it your tank is young, you will have snail die off, you will spend a lot of money, and you will get angry. So try to slow down and absorb everything.
 
Thanks Capn-
I think of filtration as part of my water's chemistry. One of my ways to get from A to B:D

~Dee~
 
My .02 for what it's worth.....Probably .02

I have been at this awhile in some shape or form for over 10 years with tanks ranging from 20 tall's to 240's and everything in between. The smaller ones were a ##### and the larger ones were an expensive ##### so I eventually had to find a happy medium financially and space wise with current house living area.

There is no doubt about it. This hobby is one of the most expensive, time consuming, rewarding and frustraiting things that I have ever experienced and I am sure that I am not alone. Not a day goes by they I don't tinker with something, stick my hand in my tank to get bit by my clown to fix something that she knocked over or cuss out a turbo snail that I didn't know was still there that has wedged himself/herself in a spot only God knows how it got there and God didn't bless me with long enough arms to reach it. I do things on here that most people would be appalled at and I have had considerable success with most of my tanks. For example I couldn't tell you the last time I did a water change. Probably over 8 months ago when I went from my 75 to my 90 which wasn't a big deal just wanted a larger fuge in the bottom and a little more room in the DT. I have a 20 long refugium with a sump with bio balls. Fuge is full of god knows what, I think there might be a moth in there currently from where it flew in during the night attracted to the lights I keep on 24/7 down there. But it is full of pods, featherdusters, starfish and chaeto that keep things in check. I am pretty sure that I have a hermit crab down there that will take care of that moth eventually. I do not have one reactor on my tank and have only ever owned one, a calc reactor that was on my 240 because it came with it when I purchased it used over 5 years ago. Still not sure if it ever ran correctly but the fish and corals seemed to like it. I guess my point is, if I am making one, the people on this site or awsome. They have more knowledge and experience than anyone else in the world that you will have the privilage of talking to. Most things that you are told are tried, tested, and true from years of experience which is wonderful. But I have to agree with the above metioned quotes that you have to understand your tank and your tank only. There are methods to the madness that work wonders for some and not so good for others and that is where you will get conflicting stories. But keep this in mind too that no matter what you hear on here these folks have all been through it too. The mistakes, the deaths, trying things they shouldn't have, and trust me you are not alone about the money thing. We all have spent 100X the amount that we might even own up to weither we like it or not, we have. But because we love the hobby we can only tell of our experiences and try to save those that have not had to go through the pain and agony that we have had to go through.
Finally understand your tank and yours only. You may end up with a crayola box of sps that people will eww and aww over as we all do. Or you may end up with a very beautiful tank that you can call your own... that you think is wonderful in every aspect regardless of what we or anyone else thinks. The tanks you see on here and on the interent are those tanks that people have spent hours and hours on, along with thousands of dollars, and that is why you see them on here because they deserve to be on here. I can only wish you the best in your endeavour and hope that you take the advice on here as the "advice" that it is and not the gospel....

My .02
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12244204#post12244204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cfw1199
My .02 for what it's worth.....Probably .02

I have been at this awhile in some shape or form for over 10 years with tanks ranging from 20 tall's to 240's and everything in between. The smaller ones were a ##### and the larger ones were an expensive ##### so I eventually had to find a happy medium financially and space wise with current house living area.

There is no doubt about it. This hobby is one of the most expensive, time consuming, rewarding and frustraiting things that I have ever experienced and I am sure that I am not alone. Not a day goes by they I don't tinker with something, stick my hand in my tank to get bit by my clown to fix something that she knocked over or cuss out a turbo snail that I didn't know was still there that has wedged himself/herself in a spot only God knows how it got there and God didn't bless me with long enough arms to reach it. I do things on here that most people would be appalled at and I have had considerable success with most of my tanks. For example I couldn't tell you the last time I did a water change. Probably over 8 months ago when I went from my 75 to my 90 which wasn't a big deal just wanted a larger fuge in the bottom and a little more room in the DT. I have a 20 long refugium with a sump with bio balls. Fuge is full of god knows what, I think there might be a moth in there currently from where it flew in during the night attracted to the lights I keep on 24/7 down there. But it is full of pods, featherdusters, starfish and chaeto that keep things in check. I am pretty sure that I have a hermit crab down there that will take care of that moth eventually. I do not have one reactor on my tank and have only ever owned one, a calc reactor that was on my 240 because it came with it when I purchased it used over 5 years ago. Still not sure if it ever ran correctly but the fish and corals seemed to like it. I guess my point is, if I am making one, the people on this site or awsome. They have more knowledge and experience than anyone else in the world that you will have the privilage of talking to. Most things that you are told are tried, tested, and true from years of experience which is wonderful. But I have to agree with the above metioned quotes that you have to understand your tank and your tank only. There are methods to the madness that work wonders for some and not so good for others and that is where you will get conflicting stories. But keep this in mind too that no matter what you hear on here these folks have all been through it too. The mistakes, the deaths, trying things they shouldn't have, and trust me you are not alone about the money thing. We all have spent 100X the amount that we might even own up to weither we like it or not, we have. But because we love the hobby we can only tell of our experiences and try to save those that have not had to go through the pain and agony that we have had to go through.
Finally understand your tank and yours only. You may end up with a crayola box of sps that people will eww and aww over as we all do. Or you may end up with a very beautiful tank that you can call your own... that you think is wonderful in every aspect regardless of what we or anyone else thinks. The tanks you see on here and on the interent are those tanks that people have spent hours and hours on, along with thousands of dollars, and that is why you see them on here because they deserve to be on here. I can only wish you the best in your endeavour and hope that you take the advice on here as the "advice" that it is and not the gospel....

My .02
Click to expand...

hmmm--bank manager--I'll be in to see you tomorrow--I would really like to up grade to------------:lol:

I agree with you totally----I owe alot of my successess to having been fortunate enought to access a site like RC, early in my reef keeping hobby.
 
You have stumbled onto one of the things that makes this hobby so fascinating...there are VERY few questions that provide a black and white / yes or no answer.
You need to research and learn much of this on your own ...or...find a mentor and do everything the mentor tells you to do.
RC provides great advise but everybody's setup is slightly different, so what works great for them may not work for your setup.

Best advise...take it very slow
 
Well, you have to be willing to do some work! I can't even recall how many hours I poured over threads and posts and links in here, trying to put it all together. It became easiest for me when I broke things down into mechanics and living things separately, then subdivided those down further (like lighting, flow, etc) and just concentrated on getting to know and understand each one individually. The whole pie was too much to swallow at once, but taken one slice at a time, it was much more palatable. I can't say how much time I spent at Home Depot holding plumbing pieces and trying to picture how this was all going to come together and relate to everything in the tank and on and on, but then I decided to just concentrate on making a drawing and worrying about just the plumbing and I worked it out eventually. After you get the basics of what the different components are doing, then it's easier to tie them together later on and deduce what might work and what might not. And has been said, the footwork must be done by each person in researching and designing what you're doing on your own system. You can ask questions here and get feedback from those who have maybe tried what you're suggesting and listen to their experiences to arrive at YOUR own method. I believe that there are some things that are tried and true, though, and unfortunately those seem to be some of the things that get argued about in here (RO/DI, QT, etc) the most. I just think it's wisest to sit down and spend a good amount of time (I spent several months) reading and figuring things out before getting your feet wet. Even after doing all that, you'll likely spend the first several months of a tank doing alterations and revisions. That's what we do :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12245439#post12245439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shooter7
Well, you have to be willing to do some work! I can't even recall how many hours I poured over threads and posts and links in here, trying to put it all together. It became easiest for me when I broke things down into mechanics and living things separately, then subdivided those down further (like lighting, flow, etc) and just concentrated on getting to know and understand each one individually. The whole pie was too much to swallow at once, but taken one slice at a time, it was much more palatable. I can't say how much time I spent at Home Depot holding plumbing pieces and trying to picture how this was all going to come together and relate to everything in the tank and on and on, but then I decided to just concentrate on making a drawing and worrying about just the plumbing and I worked it out eventually. After you get the basics of what the different components are doing, then it's easier to tie them together later on and deduce what might work and what might not. And has been said, the footwork must be done by each person in researching and designing what you're doing on your own system. You can ask questions here and get feedback from those who have maybe tried what you're suggesting and listen to their experiences to arrive at YOUR own method. I believe that there are some things that are tried and true, though, and unfortunately those seem to be some of the things that get argued about in here (RO/DI, QT, etc) the most. I just think it's wisest to sit down and spend a good amount of time (I spent several months) reading and figuring things out before getting your feet wet. Even after doing all that, you'll likely spend the first several months of a tank doing alterations and revisions. That's what we do :D
Click to expand...

i have to luagh, becouse it is sooooo true. Very well written shooter. "thats what we do", sooo true....
 
Welcome to the hobby !!
It happens to most of us, at least I think it does.
Just an observation; have you seen any of the high end set-ups or the ones people just like you and me, not "pros" having a cannister doing the filtration part? I'm not saying those are bad, for the money they cost I'm sure they are good, no company will risk their name selling just crap canisters.
I have too spent way more than I ever thought possible but that's a different story, just trying to have a system stable and a beautiful piece of ocean at home.
On my own experience sump/fuges are better and require less maintenance than canisters which have to be serviced very, VERY often. Overstock is very common, count me in and as you state some people tell you you are ok most will tell you you are way over the acceptable limit of livestock.
I know a person who does high end reef systems and when I met him his 90 gal tank is blooming with corals way too stuffed with live rock and a few fish, among 3 tangs purple, yellow, tomini couple clowns, gobies; all the filtration is a sump with an ER skimmer.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11965633#post11965633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
I have been in the salt water hobby only 3 months and like many of you guys did and many more will do I was anxious to get some fish in my tank and get things going.

I was at the lfs store and did alot of reading and research on things but found them very confusing even after that everyone and everyplace has a different idea and opinion.

Now after 3 months I have a decent stock some say to much some say it is ok. I ran into a little problem buying things I did not need and buying too many different things i did not need from advice on here and other sites.

I know all on here mean well but I think that it has become an issue where out of 10 responses 9 of them are different ? How is a newbie supposed to knwo who to believe when 10 people have all different opinions?

I went from a canister ($200) to a wet/dry)$175) to a diy sump with a sock Back to a canister all in 2 months from different advice on here . all beacause I listened to all different people I had the canister and was told it is no good dump I bought a wet.dry was told it is not good get a sump got that told it is doing nothing make a refugium .
I am going nuts AND BROKE trying to keep up all because I am new and have to try what I am told by the experts.
Now after going around the world I am back to my canister where I am being told it is ok if you clean it out at least every month?

So why all the other stuff It could have been simply said Yo have a canister you could use that but when you get some money and time you would be better off with a sum/refugium .
Instead it was made to sound like oh my don't use the canister or you will lose all fish

Then the other day I lost some snails again 10 diferent responses all different I moved my rocks and disturbed the sand ? Could that have been it maybe But right aways it was go buy all these tests test this change youre water don't use this only use that It could have been a simple let everything settle and see what happens Nothing else has happened since then and finally the water cleared up beatiiful.
But after I spent $100 on test kits I am told now I don't need

Again I am really thankful of all the advice n here But I am sure as all the newbies are and will be that it is got to be more of a helpful thing instead of 10 different ideas form 10 different people

Yes you guys mean well and we thank you But then as I have is oh you are too fast or oh why did you do that .We are taking advice from all you guys we are trying to do what we are told on here and sometimes we make mistakes after lkistening to all different opinions
I know have ahouse full of stuff I will probably never use.
Click to expand...
 
What I've noticed the past year being at RC is everything depends... depends on a lot of things. The first thing that all other things depend on is what you have in the tank. If it's a bunch of softies you can probably get away with no skimmer, few water changes. One person is telling me Chemi Pure he uses in place of water changes.

If you have a full reef with SPS you probably have to have a skimmer. I haven't seen one yet that didn't. If you have pics MARIOENSF or SHOOTER7 of these stocked reefs and what equipment they have, what their maint. regimine is please share. :cool: We'd all like to see. I keep hearing about these full reefs with no water changes.

Another thing I noticed is it depends on how well established your tank is, good size refugium, lots of rock, dsb, etc. I think that helps a lot. A couple of TOTM articles I read they talk about doing water changes once 1-2 months... and they could go 3-4 mos if they wanted. That's gotta be a tank that is perfectly tuned. But they all have skimmers, refugiums, etc... and still do water changes at some point. I for one would like to know more about how to make this hobby easier. I've myself have been running skimmer-less for years with lots of softies, few lps, lots of fish. I think that has more to do with water changes, and well established rock. A lot of these TOTM guys have a lot of flow through their tanks too. That's what makes this hobby difficult. There's so many diff. combinations of equipment and livestock.

BUT if we know what people have, what they do, we should be able to emulate it.

This hobby reminds me of GOLF. It can be quite frustrating.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12244204#post12244204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cfw1199
My .02 for what it's worth.....Probably .02
My .02
Click to expand...
 
You have to be scientifically minded, mechanically inclined and a hands on learner to be successful in the reef hobby.

--otherwise you have to be rich enough to pay someone to do everything for you----that would not be a hobby for me.

My basement is becoming a giant mechano set for me--LOL

DSC_0049-1.jpg


and I am playing er expanding again:

DSC_0232.jpg
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12246257#post12246257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cfw1199
It all starts here!

Ladies and gentleman the next LFS coming your way

Wow Capn!
Click to expand...

No doubt! Now I don't feel so bad about all the tanks I have (30 gal. hex, 75 gal., 10 gal. QT, 40 gal. hex stretch, 10 gal. sump, 80 gal. w/30 gal. sump). May my wife never guilt trip me again! LOL

Oh captain my captain, when does the LFS open?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12246257#post12246257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cfw1199
It all starts here!

Ladies and gentleman the next LFS coming your way

Wow Capn!
Click to expand...

:lol: Like I said Mr Bank Manager--I'll be in to see you tomorrow:D
 
you guys could team up and contact the entire west coast wholesale industry.....man I have a heard enough time with one....much less 12.....
 
Like I said Mr Bank Manager--I'll be in to see you tomorrow



I will be here at 9....Not sure what the current rates are on SWF collateral....but we can work something out for sure. I might have to cosign with you I am running on Ooodles of Noodles right now...Got 4 new clams sitting behind me waiting for me to take them home and dunk them.......
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12246339#post12246339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gws76
No doubt! Now I don't feel so bad about all the tanks I have (30 gal. hex, 75 gal., 10 gal. QT, 40 gal. hex stretch, 10 gal. sump, 80 gal. w/30 gal. sump). May my wife never guilt trip me again! LOL

Oh captain my captain, when does the LFS open?
Click to expand...

I really posted this to back up my post of having to be mechanically inclined and a hands on person.
I have not spent alot of money down there
one fuge is a 15 dollar tote from Homedepot
the tables I got as last sale/damaged for about 25 bucks a piece and fixed them up.
That fowlr tank complete with 50 lbs of live rock ect I picked up for 100 bucks.
I've been throwing base rock in the sump for months now and then using it as live rock---the base rock is a buck a pound.
All the plumbing, electrical is all Diy.

But this is the part of the hobby that is so neat
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12246339#post12246339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gws76
No doubt! Now I don't feel so bad about all the tanks I have (30 gal. hex, 75 gal., 10 gal. QT, 40 gal. hex stretch, 10 gal. sump, 80 gal. w/30 gal. sump). May my wife never guilt trip me again! LOL

Oh captain my captain, when does the LFS open?
Click to expand...

where is Papagimp?? He has an amazing number of tanks on the go and a garage full of them.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12246435#post12246435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
where is Papagimp?? He has an amazing number of tanks on the go and a garage full of them.
Click to expand...

Must be an Okie thing.LOL

I'm pretty sure he's from Oklahoma also.
 
I really do think it was easier when I started. When there was no information and no one to ask. All of the people who wrote the books that are mentioned were not in the hobby yet and some were not even born. It was trial and error but making mistakes is the best way to learn, albeit not the cheapest.
It gets much easier with time. I have an analagy. I have been a construction electrician in Manhattan for 40 years. When we would start building an office building there were of course no elevators. We would build a floor in about two or three days so every week we had to climb more stairs. At the start of the job, it was easy to climb two or three floors, then it got harder when we added floors but in time gradually we climbed 20 floors with no problem. Reefing is like that. After a while you have encountered all of the diseases kept all of the animals available, had all of the equipment imaginable, read all the books ever written and visited every store in your state. If your a diver, you swam with all the fish available in the hobby. Eventually, not only is there no problem you can't solve but the problems themselves disappear.
Your animals will start to live forever and your tank will need hardly any maintenance.
I read about all the problems people have with ich, diatoms, hair algae, male pattern baldness etc. and the amount of time and money spent boggles my mind. I sometimes feel like I am not doing enough because I hardly spend any time on maintenance and except for electricity I really don't spend much money either.
One day on my boat costs more than I spend all year on my tank.
I do like to spend time on inventions, creations, and innovations but that is just me and not needed.
Today I made this fresh water purity guage. It is a 1" thick acrylic tube filled with color changing resins. It hangs on the back of the tank and all the top off water goes through it. If I see it changing color I know it's time to change the main resins or the RO membrane.
I know this is not needed but I am an inventer and I like building things.
I also do not have a sump, refugium, calcium injector, CO2 chamber or any thing else that I can't pronounce.
Food costs me maybe $10.00 a year, OK maybe $20.00
Enough rambling, have a great day.
Paul
13094Me_in_wet_suit.JPG
 
Paul I agree with you. Keep it simple. Unlike you I don't invent things but I'm fascinated with the how and why. So all the equipment and all the fancy gagdets take the fun out of the absolute joy of doing it all by myself. Just enjoy it's a hobby!

~Dee~
 
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