fuzzy dwarf lion problem? possible ich? :(

[hilary22677]

long story short i have a fuzzy dwarf lion in quarantine (because i moved). his name is mr. champ and has been really hardy and doing great, and he loves to eat frozen food!

but recently, the stupid heater crapped out in his quarantine tank, and the temp got down to at least around 67! i bought a new heater and have kept it at 74 degrees

thought he was doing fine until last night i saw he was breathing really heavily. i did a water test and detected some slight ammonia (around .025) and i threw in a bacteria bio wheel from another tank. today i went to my LFS to have my water tested, here are the parameters:

salinity: .026
nitrate: 0
kh: 8
phosphate: .28
ammonia: .0
nitrite: .0
ph: 7.7


i'm about to do a water change adnd vaccuum the sand, the guy at my LFS told me i shouldn't have any sand in a QT tank anyway, as ich can breed in the sand, but that the chic argued with him that i should keep my sand because it can hold bactera. soooo....no solutions from them.

what should i do? is the possible heavy breathing from a small ich infection of his gills, or is it because my PH is low?? i really want to save him! some advice would be great thanks

 

[hilary22677]

update: last night he ate, but barely. today he is not eating at all!

 

[namxas]

Bump up your pH, 7.7 is pretty low. Also, now that your temp is at 74*F, I'd bump it up to 76*F-77*F. Leave the substrate alone unless you're running CC, as you may make a bad situation worse by releasing nasty things into the water column. The WC is fine tho, try about 25%.

You mentioned crypto...did the fish have ich? Check its caudal fin and eyes in particular. Has the fish shed its cuticle at all, or is it just off its food?

Have you tried enticing the fish with live ghost shrimp? IME, it's pretty darned hard for a fuzzy to resist a live ghostie or a live guppy. You shouldn't really be worried about the lion eating every day, but that's another story (3x a week is plenty, honest).

Remember, that a cold fish's metabolism will be more sluggish, so that and the low pH could be your problem. Since the fish is gilling, you may want to drop an open-ended rigid airline in one corner to bump up the surface turbulance.

 

[hilary22677]

thanks! i'm not sure what crypto is? but i got a better look at the lionfish now, he's beathing real heavy and actually does have a few white grains on him, now i'm a lot more positive he has ich

yeah, you hit the situation right on the money. i put an airstone in the tank last night and i still have it in there, and i already only feed him only about 3 times a week or so.

i could try the ghost shrimp thing...although i've had him for 3 months and he's only eaten frozen food (and loves it!), i honestly don't even want to chance switching his diet to anything alive. usually just the smell of the food will send him shooting out of wherever he's perched and he happily gulps it down. i think now he's just not eating cuz he's sick :/

i just did a 20% water change since the test so i am not sure if that helped the ph or not, but before this water change it's been about 2 weeks since i've done one. i don't have a ph test kit so i won't know until i can get one or go to my LFS again.

should i treat for ich now that i know it has it?

 

[namxas]

Yes, I'd jump on it. BTW "crypto" = Cryptocarion irritans = "ich" because it looks like FW "ich".

According to Jay Hemdal, lions can handle full doses of chelated copper preparations (I think Cupramine is chelated, but check it out to be sure).

Another remedy that is receiving good results is quinine hydrochloride.

We've treated lions in the past using hyposalinity (keeping the fish at SG 1.009) for 6-8 weeks, but that's a tuff treatment to do as you really need to stay on top of SG and pH.

I honestly don't think your fish will "backslide" to live food, as our fish were supplemented with live food during their hypo treatments (they were a bit "off" too), but as long as your fish has good weight on, and is eating SOMETHING, it should be OK.

HTH, good luck, and do let us know how the fish is doing.

 

[hilary22677]

OK, i figured i would jump on it. copper scared me to use so i started using this stuff called herbtana microbe-lift. just did the first dose, about an hour ago, i'll keep us posted to see if that stuff works!

chelated copper, eh? if i see no improvement in a few days i'll filter out this current medicine and try to find a chelated copper product! wish me luck!

 

[namxas]

IMHO/IME, the herbal preparations don't really work, but I've never used that one.

 

[jadendo]

OK, i figured i would jump on it. copper scared me to use so i started using this stuff called herbtana microbe-lift. just did the first dose, about an hour ago, i'll keep us posted to see if that stuff works!

chelated copper, eh? if i see no improvement in a few days i'll filter out this current medicine and try to find a chelated copper product! wish me luck!

Yey!!! I am not the only one using Herbtana. My fishes got ich too, pretty bad. I use this Herbtana stuff in my main display tank for 5 days. They are actually improving. It takes 10 days for Herbtana treatment. However if you decide to switch to Copper, make sure to somehow change all water. Herbtana and Copper should never be mixed. That's what Microbelift advises.

Make sure you dose 5ml or 1 cap full for 25 gallon of water every day. Turn off your skimmer and let the medicine works. Do it for 5 day straight, you will see result. Keep doing it until day 10 and then change water.

Also feed your fish with food dipped in fresh garlic juice/extract. Good luck! Keep me updated with your fishes progress.

 

[RBU1]

First of all....As posted several times. Reef safe treatments do not work. All you are doing is adding crap to your tank that is doing nothing. You better off just keeping the water quality good and feeding a good diet then adding crap to your tank.

Jadendo you should know from your other thread how people feel about your current situation. Please don't give advice to people...Especially advice that deals with reef safe treatments.

Sounds like namxas is steering you in the proper direction. Copper and Hypo are the only treatments know to work on Crypt. Some also have tried chloriquine but I am not familiar with that drug. If the fish is still eating you have a chance if he stops eating for a couple days you might be in trouble. In my opinion doing anything drastic right now might cause more harm then good. I would wait it out and see what happens.

 

[namxas]

RBU1,

LisaD has been using the chloroquin for crypto with good results on her fish.

As far going a couple of days with no food, with a lion, it's not really a huge issue, as they can literally go for a couple of weeks easily, and I've read a study where loss of body mass was recorded over time (using a fuzzy and a volitans) that confirms this (of course, it's better NOT to have this happen).

Sometimes waiting pays off. We have an adult volitans that gets the occasional cyst here and there, but they tend to go away (this fish has never been treated with meds, only hypo), but IME, if the lion is acting sick, it needs intervention of some type, be it hypo or meds.

 

[RBU1]

RBU1,

LisaD has been using the chloroquin for crypto with good results on her fish.

As far going a couple of days with no food, with a lion, it's not really a huge issue, as they can literally go for a couple of weeks easily, and I've read a study where loss of body mass was recorded over time (using a fuzzy and a volitans) that confirms this (of course, it's better NOT to have this happen).

Sometimes waiting pays off. We have an adult volitans that gets the occasional cyst here and there, but they tend to go away (this fish has never been treated with meds, only hypo), but IME, if the lion is acting sick, it needs intervention of some type, be it hypo or meds.

I was considering chloriquin for my next fish but am afraid to try something new......