Fw dipping angelfish
- Thread starter FishyMel
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Recty
New member
That certainly wouldnt be a fresh water dip, it would be more of a low salinity dip. If you're going to do a FW dip, do it as a FW dip so you get all the max benefits FW provides.
For a FW dipping, what I do is get a 5g bucket or a 10g tank, whichever you prefer. Then put a heater/powerhead in it and get the temperature equalized. You can also use a airstone instead of a powerhead, just depends on your tank size and powerhead gph. I have a really low GPH powerhead I use with a small venturi ability, so it does good for keeping the water aerated.
Anyway, get the temperature correct, and then put in baking soda. You can dump the stuff in and never get above 8.2 pH or so. But I basically put in a tablespoon per 2 gallons and every time I've tested, the pH is 8.2, so I dont even bother testing pH anymore. Then you just dose as needed, depending on what you're fighting.
I tend to use methylene blue as it actually helps oxygen processes on a cellular level. Not cellular as in AT&T, but as in the hemoglobin in the blood is actually affected and helps transfer oxygen faster.
And I'm a big fan of formalin, for a FW dip do 2.7 ounces per gallon of water, for 5 or 10 minutes. For a large angel I'd probably keep him in there 10 minutes.
And then please dont put him right back into a display tank. Put him into a quarantine tank and treat with copper for the manufacturer's recommended time length. He should be ich free and ready to go back into the display tank within a month.
For a FW dipping, what I do is get a 5g bucket or a 10g tank, whichever you prefer. Then put a heater/powerhead in it and get the temperature equalized. You can also use a airstone instead of a powerhead, just depends on your tank size and powerhead gph. I have a really low GPH powerhead I use with a small venturi ability, so it does good for keeping the water aerated.
Anyway, get the temperature correct, and then put in baking soda. You can dump the stuff in and never get above 8.2 pH or so. But I basically put in a tablespoon per 2 gallons and every time I've tested, the pH is 8.2, so I dont even bother testing pH anymore. Then you just dose as needed, depending on what you're fighting.
I tend to use methylene blue as it actually helps oxygen processes on a cellular level. Not cellular as in AT&T, but as in the hemoglobin in the blood is actually affected and helps transfer oxygen faster.
And I'm a big fan of formalin, for a FW dip do 2.7 ounces per gallon of water, for 5 or 10 minutes. For a large angel I'd probably keep him in there 10 minutes.
And then please dont put him right back into a display tank. Put him into a quarantine tank and treat with copper for the manufacturer's recommended time length. He should be ich free and ready to go back into the display tank within a month.
i would do a 5-10 minute fw bath first put him in quarintine with copper and he should be good to go in a month or so make sure the qt is setup for a few days with a piece of live rock to get the nitrification cycle goin you can also do fw dips as a scheduled cure while the fish is in qt every other day or so depending on how the fish reacts to the bath adjust the time frame in wich hes in fw
copper is not at all rough on an emp i have had mine in a fowlr for close to 2 years and i constantly run copper in the system in my opinion copper is the best parasitic med out there other tham formaldahyde in its purest form but thats way to strong and can kill a fish if not dosed correctly
I think dones20 is refering to organically chelated copper and Recty is talking about ionic copper - angels do fine with the former, but sometimes have issues with the latter.
รยขรขโยฌร โGive your fish a 30 minute freshwater dipรยขรขโยฌรย. There is no justification for performing a freshwater dip longer than 7 minutes, and five is usually tolerated much better. I am always amazed to hear people explain how to carefully adjust the pH and temperaure of the dip water to that of the tank (to avoid stress to the fish) and then tell the same person to dip the fish for 30 minutes in freshwaterรยขรขโยฌรยฆ.no THAT isnรยขรขโยฌรขโยขt stressful. Temperature and pH shock are highly overated as stressors. The only osmotic stress issue that people REALLY need to worry about is raising the salinity after a hypo treatment - that needs to be done very slowly.
Jay Hemdal
รยขรขโยฌร โGive your fish a 30 minute freshwater dipรยขรขโยฌรย. There is no justification for performing a freshwater dip longer than 7 minutes, and five is usually tolerated much better. I am always amazed to hear people explain how to carefully adjust the pH and temperaure of the dip water to that of the tank (to avoid stress to the fish) and then tell the same person to dip the fish for 30 minutes in freshwaterรยขรขโยฌรยฆ.no THAT isnรยขรขโยฌรขโยขt stressful. Temperature and pH shock are highly overated as stressors. The only osmotic stress issue that people REALLY need to worry about is raising the salinity after a hypo treatment - that needs to be done very slowly.
Jay Hemdal
LargeAngels
Premium Member
FW dips do nothing for ich. It is only affective against velvet and flukes.
Cupramine copper medication is much less toxic to fish than any other copper med out there. I have used it on just about every type of angelfish (large and dwarf) even one's labeled copper sensitive without any issues.
Hypo is affective agains ich (but not velvet) although there have been reports of some hypo resistant strains so approach with caution.
Cupramine copper medication is much less toxic to fish than any other copper med out there. I have used it on just about every type of angelfish (large and dwarf) even one's labeled copper sensitive without any issues.
Hypo is affective agains ich (but not velvet) although there have been reports of some hypo resistant strains so approach with caution.
fw baths are excelent for any unicellular parasites including cryptocaryon (ick) yhr reason being is because when the fish is in the fresh water its resperation greatly increase in doing so it creates osmotic presure in turn the parisites burst and die because they take in aditional fw
LargeAngels
Premium Member
"Freshwater dips are generally ineffective in the treatment of marine "Ich" infestations. Trophonts burrow deeply into the epithelium where they are generally protected from external influences. Colorni (1985) found that even after 18 hours in freshwater, infected fish still have trophonts attached in the same positions as they had held before the freshwater treatment. The trophonts later detached and completed their life cycle as normal."
Good reference site: http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/treatments.html
Good reference site: http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/treatments.html
LargeAngels
Premium Member
So you are saying that you found evidence to state that the parasite has evolved since 1985 and is not affected by FW dips? Good luck with the FW dips.
predator 1
New member
If there is one subject that is "Guaranteed" to cause a debate within the Marine circles, it is "ICH". In all my years of keeping Marines, and countless eradication methods employed, I am yet to discover a 100% sure-fire method of successful treatment!!
no what im saying is that technology and studys have changed alot since the time you have stated and in doing so more research has evolved tus giving us more knowledge.....cryptoczryon irritations are known as trophonts when they mature they these trophonts fall of the fish and encapsulate them selves in this stage they are known as tomonts this is one of the stages it can not be killed they later split into daughter cells whitch ae the spots that we visibaly see on our fishes bodies also known as tomites thes tomites do not get deep into the skin but rather under the "mucosa of the skin fins and gills"..... i am not arguing that your theory is right nor wrong b/c every one has a diferent experience, what works for me dosnt necessarily mean it will work for you or vice versa....
and even if its like you say that its burried under the skin its still gonna be affected because the fish has fw running through the inside of it body because it is obviously submersed in it and ingesting the fw thus creating osmotic pressure and killing the parisites.... FW dips are highly under rated by some b/c they do not know how to adminster the correct treatment FW dips are not a one time bath and expect it to be gone it takes a few treatments of 5-10 minute periods once a day to succesfully combate the disease just like any other medication you dont put it in the tank for one day and expect it to cure your fish... same goes for fw dips
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13166561#post13166561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dones20
and even if its like you say that its burried under the skin its still gonna be affected because the fish has fw running through the inside of it body because it is obviously submersed in it and ingesting the fw thus creating osmotic pressure and killing the parisites....
Hate to burst your bubble, but that's not accurate. The fish's internal salinity does not change, if it did the fish would die
They can osmoregulate well enough and for long enough to prevent any internal changes of their tissues While a properly administered FW dip can be very effective for certain parasites, there are quite few for which it isn't effective, including Cyrpotcaryon and even some species of tremetodes (aka flukes).Similar threads
