Aquarist007
New member
Good train of thought----------I am wondering if anyone has actually been able to look into the process of how fish fend off ich in the wild--that would take the probablity out of assuming it is chance resistance.
garlic/uv sterelizer oppinions from those who have had sucsses
- Thread starter gobiefish
- Start date
wooden_reefer
New member
I think in the ocean fish has no need to fend of ich entirely. Further and naturally, higher than usual resistance against ich in fish, as genetic variance, is not rewarded and is not naturally selected.
The reason is simple: ich as a species survives by extremely draconian birth control. Leaving one host is a part of the organism's life cycle. This ensures that, first, the population of ich is very low in the ocean and, second, that most hosts are not killed off. If all the fish were killed so would the ich organism.
The natural epidemiology/ecology of ich is determined by its life cycle.
Aquarist007
New member
wooden_reefer--thanks for filling in the gaps in my knowledge of ich 
Scott
Scott
Yes very helpfull informatoin ! I now wonder if fish in smaller tank's or over stocked tank's tend to have less of a chance when ich appears . If I could realistacly have a 1,000 gallon sump versus my 20 gallon the ich parisite would stand less of a chance in it's life cycle when trying to find it's host agin?or possibly regeneratig the water every day on a large propotion hence good husbandry and weekly water changes.
I read somewere that ich parisites my be somewhat photo dependant reataching to it's fish host at night when the fish are resting in the aquarium since they tend to rest in the same place every night has their ever been any studies on this? Do fish in the ocean rest in the exact place every night?:wave:
I read somewere that ich parisites my be somewhat photo dependant reataching to it's fish host at night when the fish are resting in the aquarium since they tend to rest in the same place every night has their ever been any studies on this? Do fish in the ocean rest in the exact place every night?:wave:
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RBU1
Moving on Up
I have a problem with this ICH crap......I can't for the life of me understand how we can put a man/woman on the moon but can't come up with an ich medication that is reef safe...AND WORKS...........I will never QT again I have worse luck putting fish in QT then putting them right in the tank. If they get ich they get ich.......So far I have been feeding very heavy and the fish seem to fight it off. Fat and happy fish can fight off ich just like a cold.
A properly set up QT not only mitigates the risk of disease but helps the fish acclimate to captivity. Rather than giving up on QT I suggest you try and learn how to improve your technique .. heres one of the better QT thread authored by a clown fish breeder.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288805
Hope this helps.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288805
Hope this helps.
wooden_reefer
New member
This is because you do not give QT the due respect and preparation it deserves.
It must be thoroughly cycled. or the biological medium in the filter used in it must be thoroughly cycled. nitrification capacity must be very high in a QT.
The QT does not have to be expensive. I have used 5-gal round buckets for QT. The biological filter is just an inch of cycled crushed coral at the bottom. A small powerhead set slow at the top circulates and areates. A setup like this can support one medium fish for weeks.
The biological filter medium is better removable, though.
Gaseous exhange is importort.
Don't forget the mental aspect (for fish) such as a bottom that does not see through and enough hidding places. A few clay pots. The QT is also a place for acclimation.
My most basic are copper and UV treatment at once, or after just a few days of idle observation, not much longer. The purpose of UV is to keep the waterborne concentration of pathogenic bacteria very low.
I include a lot of calcerous material in the QT and administer copper (straight) in pulses. Some people prefer to exclude calcareous material and keep Cu concentration constant. I don't want to discredit the latter, just that I have used pulses quite successfully.
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timrandlerv10
New member
'do fish sleep in the same spot'
well, i have no PhD reference, but i have seen several fish sleep in the same area continuously, and the same spot very often if not every night (repetitive dives, the local 'there he is,' etc).
back to the fleas and ticks: dogs have higher concentrations of fleas in their bedding. doesnt it just make sense that ich will be in higher concentration in sleeping, breeding, feeding areas?
'garlic doesnt kill ich/keep them from getting it/whatever'
i think we all feel pretty close to the same on garlic now, but back to the original point, which may have been (or i'm now telling everyone it was and hoping you dont read it again!) will garlic help keep fish from not just getting it, but living through it?'
anything that improves your health and quality of life the day before you got some disease, illness, or parasite will help you endure and recover. the question i have is:
HOW DOES GARLIC IMPROVE THE FISH'S IMMUNE SYSTEM?
because if it does, then it goes in, because its helping me beat all the other junk my sloppy husbandry lets slip past the edge.
TO PEOPLE WHO ARE QT'ERS:
how many dont QT inverts?
i'm not judging, i'm just asking...i asked at a small group the other day, and all my reef mentors went 'eh. not me.' i was stunned!!!
SOOOOO...
today i am getting a box of stuff:
rics on rocks, mushrooms, zoos.
who wants to bet they dont stay in QT 72 days?
IF YOU COULD DESIGN THE PERFECT QT FOR ME TODAY
what would it be?
well, i have no PhD reference, but i have seen several fish sleep in the same area continuously, and the same spot very often if not every night (repetitive dives, the local 'there he is,' etc).
back to the fleas and ticks: dogs have higher concentrations of fleas in their bedding. doesnt it just make sense that ich will be in higher concentration in sleeping, breeding, feeding areas?
'garlic doesnt kill ich/keep them from getting it/whatever'
i think we all feel pretty close to the same on garlic now, but back to the original point, which may have been (or i'm now telling everyone it was and hoping you dont read it again!) will garlic help keep fish from not just getting it, but living through it?'
anything that improves your health and quality of life the day before you got some disease, illness, or parasite will help you endure and recover. the question i have is:
HOW DOES GARLIC IMPROVE THE FISH'S IMMUNE SYSTEM?
because if it does, then it goes in, because its helping me beat all the other junk my sloppy husbandry lets slip past the edge.
TO PEOPLE WHO ARE QT'ERS:
how many dont QT inverts?
i'm not judging, i'm just asking...i asked at a small group the other day, and all my reef mentors went 'eh. not me.' i was stunned!!!
SOOOOO...
today i am getting a box of stuff:
rics on rocks, mushrooms, zoos.
who wants to bet they dont stay in QT 72 days?
IF YOU COULD DESIGN THE PERFECT QT FOR ME TODAY
what would it be?
wooden_reefer
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10369321#post10369321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by timrandlerv10
'do fish sleep in the same spot'
well, i have no PhD reference, but i have seen several fish sleep in the same area continuously, and the same spot very often if not every night (repetitive dives, the local 'there he is,' etc).
back to the fleas and ticks: dogs have higher concentrations of fleas in their bedding. doesnt it just make sense that ich will be in higher concentration in sleeping, breeding, feeding areas?
'garlic doesnt kill ich/keep them from getting it/whatever'
i think we all feel pretty close to the same on garlic now, but back to the original point, which may have been (or i'm now telling everyone it was and hoping you dont read it again!) will garlic help keep fish from not just getting it, but living through it?'
anything that improves your health and quality of life the day before you got some disease, illness, or parasite will help you endure and recover. the question i have is:
HOW DOES GARLIC IMPROVE THE FISH'S IMMUNE SYSTEM?
because if it does, then it goes in, because its helping me beat all the other junk my sloppy husbandry lets slip past the edge.
TO PEOPLE WHO ARE QT'ERS:
how many dont QT inverts?
i'm not judging, i'm just asking...i asked at a small group the other day, and all my reef mentors went 'eh. not me.' i was stunned!!!
SOOOOO...
today i am getting a box of stuff:
rics on rocks, mushrooms, zoos.
who wants to bet they dont stay in QT 72 days?
IF YOU COULD DESIGN THE PERFECT QT FOR ME TODAY
what would it be?
Separating fish and invertebrates for several weeks is a large part of quarantine. I put the first large batch of invertebrates in my new show tank without quarantine without fish for a few weeks and take my chances. I use only UV to attempt the dilution effect of the ocean.
I can name my quarantine objectives:
1. Kill ich and Oodinium dead, the last bug.
2. Allow fish to acquire immunity to pathogenic bacteria (also virus) (shown as external bacterial infection) by exposure to very low concentration of waterborne pathogen at the same time. UV is the key
3. Treat for large parasites in fish such as gill flukes. Best effect.
There are many other diseases that cannot be eradicated, mostly internal bacterial and fungal diseases. Nutrition and perhaps UV are the key here.
There is also a philosophical point. For a new fish only tank, do you put the first large batch of fish in the show tank or the QT? Well, in this case, your show tank can also be your QT. A new fish-only tank is a limiting situation that can make a show tank into effectively the QT. For a new FO tank, I never aim to buy fish one or two at a time. I buy as much as I plan for eventuality and put them all in at once. Of cource, I make sure that the nitrification capacity in the tank is very high, by overcompensating during cycling.
______________________________
Torrance of water can carry boulders but even tornados cannot carry boulders. The ability of water to stir and disperse is much greater than that of air.
Fleas do not leave the host by necessity as a part of their life-cycle, even many stray away from the host. In areas of high humidity, flea infestation can be very serious even without confinement.
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