GBTA troubles continue...

[helitaiwan963]

Hey guys,

So I posted up about my GBTA going behind the rockwork. And the answer i got was it's just trying to aclimate to my tank but it's been a little over 3 weeks and it's still in the corner in a very low light area...

At this point, it's lost it's neon green color and it's kind of just brown now and some of it's tips are white... I'm afraid it's getting bleached. It won't eat and it's not sticky. I've tried on numerous occasions to try and feed it a piece of frozen krill and it kinda just floats off cuz the nem doesn't hold.

I woke up this morning and it's not looking good...

The lights aren't on yet but ya... it's mouth looks loose. Is it dead? Or is it still alive? I feel like all these signs are of a unhealthy/dying anemone.

Will anything go bad if the anemone does die in my tank? Or should I remove it before it does die? It looks like it's half on the glass and half on one of my powerheads. It was pulled off the glass at the LFS so is it just on it's way onto the smooth glass like it was used too? If it does move up to the glass, i'm not sure where else to put my koralia powerhead... it's a 29gal nano so not much room to play around with. I don't want to change the flow and have my other RBTA start moving.

Thoughts?


Thanks
ERic

 

[ogiler]

I think it did not like your water conditions and if it goes like this it will die.

 

[SkullV]

I think it did not like your water conditions and if it goes like this it will die.

Why would you make a blanket statement like that? There are so many reasons beyond water conditions for an anemone's health to decline in the home aquarium. This is right on par with your advice about the Naso Tang QT. :angryfire:

 

[helitaiwan963]

well my 1st rbta came out of the same tank out of the same lfs... And that one has been fine. it's stayed in the same spot i put it in. I'm not understanding why this one is still like this. at least it's making it's way out of the rockwork... i'm just worried about if it dies in the tank, would it cause my tank to go bad?

 

[cet98]

Eric, while I am not expert here, my I suggest that you place the nem in a "holding basket" (like a fish net breeder box: Lee's)

it may be (and I'm only speculating) that the Maroon clowns may be a bit too aggressive in their being hosted by the nem and therefore perhaps making for an unhappy GBTA...

also, FWIW it could also be losing an underwater chemical warfare battle with the RBTA...again, not sure just throwing somethings out there for you to consider...

GL my friend

 

[helitaiwan963]

Eric, while I am not expert here, my I suggest that you place the nem in a "holding basket" (like a fish net breeder box: Lee's)

it may be (and I'm only speculating) that the Maroon clowns may be a bit too aggressive in their being hosted by the nem and therefore perhaps making for an unhappy GBTA...

also, FWIW it could also be losing an underwater chemical warfare battle with the RBTA...again, not sure just throwing somethings out there for you to consider...

GL my friend

Wow, i'm gonna take a look at those breeder boxes...

I'm gonna take another picture now that the lights are on, it seems a bit better.

And can the same BTA species have chemical warefare against each other? I do have a Condy in the tank and skullv has told me to run carbon all the time now due to that and i've been doing that for a week or so now.

 

[helitaiwan963]

here it is now the lights are on

 

[cet98]

And can the same BTA species have chemical warefare against each other?

unfortunately....I have heard "yes"
some people advocate only keeping BTAs that are clones of each other, while others successfully keep all different colors of BTAs togther without issue...
so I guess in "scientific" terms (hahaha) it's 50/50 :worried:

 

[DeathWish302]

I think it did not like your water conditions and if it goes like this it will die.

Great answer!!! .....Wait, no clapping.:thumbsup:

OP - I would say your going to have to sit this one out and make sure the little green guys is kept well fed with mysis, shrimp, etc. Make sure it's small pieces, as I will not get into this never-ending debate of size. If it continues to not eat, your going to have to keep trying.

Breeder boxes work, but in a pinch a pond plant basket and some eggcrate can do the job (I have those readily available, so I try to improvise).

Oooo...... Condy plus BTA COULD (not always) cause problems with some warfare. I think it really is dependent on your situation. My Mini Carpets don't cause too much havoc with my R/G/O BTA's, but I would never consider this the norm.

Is the nem starting to pull apart at the base or stretch at all? One of my GBTA's always started to pull apart in my nano until I realized it was water quality related. He was moved into the main anemone DT and another GBTA moved into the nano. The new addition has never complained since the relocation. Moral of the story is each is 'different' in their liking of conditions, so the GBTA may not respond like the RBTA you have in the system. I'm definitely not sold on the RBTA as a major contributor to chemical warfare from my experience, but that's not to say it couldn't happen.

I know, i know. Alot of speculation and little cetainty of where to go next. I think all the 'Help, My Anemone Is Dying' threads can really only be reassuring possible next steps in case anyone is forgetting something. Definitely not a cure all attempt.

 

[stingythingy45]

What do you have for lighting?

 

[helitaiwan963]

unfortunately....I have heard "yes"
some people advocate only keeping BTAs that are clones of each other, while others successfully keep all different colors of BTAs togther without issue...
so I guess in "scientific" terms (hahaha) it's 50/50 :worried:

Great answer!!! .....Wait, no clapping.:thumbsup:

OP - I would say your going to have to sit this one out and make sure the little green guys is kept well fed with mysis, shrimp, etc. Make sure it's small pieces, as I will not get into this never-ending debate of size. If it continues to not eat, your going to have to keep trying.

Breeder boxes work, but in a pinch a pond plant basket and some eggcrate can do the job (I have those readily available, so I try to improvise).

Oooo...... Condy plus BTA COULD (not always) cause problems with some warfare. I think it really is dependent on your situation. My Mini Carpets don't cause too much havoc with my R/G/O BTA's, but I would never consider this the norm.

Is the nem starting to pull apart at the base or stretch at all? One of my GBTA's always started to pull apart in my nano until I realized it was water quality related. He was moved into the main anemone DT and another GBTA moved into the nano. The new addition has never complained since the relocation. Moral of the story is each is 'different' in their liking of conditions, so the GBTA may not respond like the RBTA you have in the system. I'm definitely not sold on the RBTA as a major contributor to chemical warfare from my experience, but that's not to say it couldn't happen.

I know, i know. Alot of speculation and little cetainty of where to go next. I think all the 'Help, My Anemone Is Dying' threads can really only be reassuring possible next steps in case anyone is forgetting something. Definitely not a cure all attempt.

damn, i was really worried about the condy and BTA's being together... I don't really have another tank i can throw the condy in and see if the GBTA does any better...

What do you mean if my GBTA is "pulling" apart?

What do you have for lighting?

4x 18watt T5 with a coralife 10k bulb, truelumen 12k bulb, 2 truelumin 460nm actinics

 

[DeathWish302]

damn, i was really worried about the condy and BTA's being together... I don't really have another tank i can throw the condy in and see if the GBTA does any better...

What do you mean if my GBTA is "pulling" apart?



4x 18watt T5 with a coralife 10k bulb, truelumen 12k bulb, 2 truelumin 460nm actinics

My personal opinion is dump the condy on the LFS. In the long run, I think you will be more happy with BTA's if your trying to have hosting anemones. I might be completely off with your intention. What size tank and what types of other corals do you have? Any excessive slime from sps (if you have any)? My sps seem to slime up right before/after my GBTA splits. I suspect this has to do with digestive enzymes released and maybe not chemical compounds. This is purely hypothetical on my part.

When I asked about 'pulling apart', the foot will appear to elongate and then start tearing vertical along a portion of the foot. If your anemone is planted deep in some rockwork, it would be difficult to tell what the foot is doing. If this splitting occurs it has been thought that the anemone is unhappy with the water conditions or a shift in chemistry from excessive WC or top-off added. I have only emulated this splitting from a neglected nano sometime ago and rapid salinity changes. I have never seen any anemone bleach from this, so maybe this does not apply. Just shooting off some other conditions to watch for as this may add some more insight for the more anemone worthy types here on RC. I do not claim to be an anemone specialist as of yet.

Also, sounds like your light is sufficient unless your tank is 24+ deep. I have mine under 12 CREE's in the nano and 250W Radium in the aneone DT.

 

[stingythingy45]

Get rid of the truelumen 12k bulb and get another 10K.
The nem will have a much better chance with more 10K lighting.
Also,how old are the bulbs?I can tell by the picture,it looks like standard fish tank lighting.
I know a lot of folks say you can keep a GBTA in low lighting if you feed.
But honestly,bleached is not healthy imo.Right now you have less that 3 watts per gallon.
GBTA probably gets beat up by those two evil maroon clowns when if comes out in the limited light you have.
I have a couple RBTA and they hang near the top,even under 250 halide pendents.
They are bright red and quite healthy.

 

[helitaiwan963]

My personal opinion is dump the condy on the LFS. In the long run, I think you will be more happy with BTA's if your trying to have hosting anemones. I might be completely off with your intention. What size tank and what types of other corals do you have? Any excessive slime from sps (if you have any)? My sps seem to slime up right before/after my GBTA splits. I suspect this has to do with digestive enzymes released and maybe not chemical compounds. This is purely hypothetical on my part.

When I asked about 'pulling apart', the foot will appear to elongate and then start tearing vertical along a portion of the foot. If your anemone is planted deep in some rockwork, it would be difficult to tell what the foot is doing. If this splitting occurs it has been thought that the anemone is unhappy with the water conditions or a shift in chemistry from excessive WC or top-off added. I have only emulated this splitting from a neglected nano sometime ago and rapid salinity changes. I have never seen any anemone bleach from this, so maybe this does not apply. Just shooting off some other conditions to watch for as this may add some more insight for the more anemone worthy types here on RC. I do not claim to be an anemone specialist as of yet.

Also, sounds like your light is sufficient unless your tank is 24+ deep. I have mine under 12 CREE's in the nano and 250W Radium in the aneone DT.

hmm... as far as i can tell, the GBTA is not splitting. My tank is a standard 29gal tank. And ya, i'm trying to have host anemone for my maroons. But my dad loves that condy since it's the only anemone doing super well right now.

The only other coral/livestock in my tank are
red sea pom pom xenia
pom pom xenia
GSP
Kenya tree
Ricordia
zoa's
a little 1" frag of birdsnest sps
mushrooms
tuxedo urchin
red leg hermits
astria snails
nessarius snails
2x blue chromis
2x GS maroons
1x lawnmower blenny

Get rid of the truelumen 12k bulb and get another 10K.
The nem will have a much better chance with more 10K lighting.
Also,how old are the bulbs?I can tell by the picture,it looks like standard fish tank lighting.
I know a lot of folks say you can keep a GBTA in low lighting if you feed.
But honestly,bleached is not healthy imo.Right now you have less that 3 watts per gallon.
GBTA probably gets beat up by those two evil maroon clowns when if comes out in the limited light you have.
I have a couple RBTA and they hang near the top,even under 250 halide pendents.
They are bright red and quite healthy.

the oldest bulbs are only about 4 months old, so they're fairly new.

The nem isn't completely bleached but some of it's tips are white, i don't even know if thats considered bleached. I was told my t5's should be fine for BTA's if they are placed around the middle of my tank.

im not sure what you mean by standard fish tank lighting. it's certainly not one of those florescent strip lights.

 

[DeathWish302]

Get rid of the truelumen 12k bulb and get another 10K.
The nem will have a much better chance with more 10K lighting.

I'm no T5 expert, as I've never even used them. I came from the old school VHO era right into MH and finally LED. I would 'expect' this light to work, as my 36W in the 12gal Aquapod is sufficient. Then again, we're talking apples to oranges with fluorescent to LED.

helitaiwan963 - What's your plan long-term? Lighting upgrade or tank upgrade anytime soon? If lights are on the list, maybe an upgrade with some MH around 175W range. You don't want to go overkill with 250W on a 29gal with BTA's, but some more punch cannot hurt. Maybe a couple more T5 bulbs.

I'm not the person to really ask for lighting advice, as I've always went the more power route...think 400W MH + 42W LED over 58gal nuts.

Finally, DO NOT buy into the watts per gallon debate. That is not a valuable measurement when judging lighting. You have to consider area of coverage, depth and water quality. All these items have more meaning than some ratio of watts/gal.

 

[stingythingy45]

Frank,

I'm just thinking that 4x 18watt T5 with a coralife 10k bulb, truelumen 12k bulb, 2 truelumin 460nm actinics is not enough true daylight and much too blue.
That 3 bulbs that are basically actinic and only one that is daylight 10K.
I'm thinking that more 10K lighting would be better for Zooxanthellae.So changing the 14K to another 10K would be better for the nem's color.
2 actinic and 2 10K bulbs

 

[DeathWish302]

Frank,

I'm just thinking that 4x 18watt T5 with a coralife 10k bulb, truelumen 12k bulb, 2 truelumin 460nm actinics is not enough true daylight and much too blue.
That 3 bulbs that are basically actinic and only one that is daylight 10K.
I'm thinking that more 10K lighting would be better for Zooxanthellae.So changing the 14K to another 10K would be better for the nem's color.
2 actinic and 2 10K bulbs

No problems with your thoughts about this combo on my end. I will admit, I'm not familiar with T5's or even those bulbs. Maybe a little premature for me to shoot off at the hip that just b/c I saw 10K & 12K it would be sufficient.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that my LED Par30 bulbs completely drowned out the CFL Par38 bulbs. Truly my LED setup should not be compared to the T5 setup. Again, my fault for comparing apples to oranges.

 

[helitaiwan963]

Frank,

I'm just thinking that 4x 18watt T5 with a coralife 10k bulb, truelumen 12k bulb, 2 truelumin 460nm actinics is not enough true daylight and much too blue.
That 3 bulbs that are basically actinic and only one that is daylight 10K.
I'm thinking that more 10K lighting would be better for Zooxanthellae.So changing the 14K to another 10K would be better for the nem's color.
2 actinic and 2 10K bulbs

No problems with your thoughts about this combo on my end. I will admit, I'm not familiar with T5's or even those bulbs. Maybe a little premature for me to shoot off at the hip that just b/c I saw 10K & 12K it would be sufficient.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that my LED Par30 bulbs completely drowned out the CFL Par38 bulbs. Truly my LED setup should not be compared to the T5 setup. Again, my fault for comparing apples to oranges.

the truelumen 12k powerwhite is the bulb that came with my nova extreme t5ho fixture. is 12k considered to be "blue"?

My longterm goals are to upgrade the tank. But i'm currently a college student and the tank is sitting in my house. me and my dad are currently in the planning phase of hopefully moving everything into a 75gal or 90 gal tank within the next year. Thats mainly why i haven't put much thought into upgrading the lighting.

Then again, is lighting my issue for this problem of it not coming out of the rockwork?

 

[helitaiwan963]

hmm... I was feeding my piranhas the usual shrimp. The kind that we buy at the local grocery store that we all love to eat. Thats what i feed my piranha. Anyway, i was on my last one and about to throw it in and decided to rip it in half. I had the idea to feed this stuff to the GBTA.

Soaked in selcon for about 10 minutes and fed it to the GBTA. AND IT FINALLY ATE! It really wasn't very sticky, but it kind of curled up and moved the shrimp to it's mouth. It looked promising as it was in the process of moving the shrimp so i sat guard in front of it with my feeding tongs and warded off the maroons and any shrimp that was trying to steal the food. After about 2 mins, it finally ate the dim sized piece of shrimp.

So this is good sign right? And it's also ok to be feeding my nem's this kind of shrimp right?


Thanks
Eric

 

[RJT]

hmm... I was feeding my piranhas the usual shrimp. The kind that we buy at the local grocery store that we all love to eat. Thats what i feed my piranha. Anyway, i was on my last one and about to throw it in and decided to rip it in half. I had the idea to feed this stuff to the GBTA.

Soaked in selcon for about 10 minutes and fed it to the GBTA. AND IT FINALLY ATE! It really wasn't very sticky, but it kind of curled up and moved the shrimp to it's mouth. It looked promising as it was in the process of moving the shrimp so i sat guard in front of it with my feeding tongs and warded off the maroons and any shrimp that was trying to steal the food. After about 2 mins, it finally ate the dim sized piece of shrimp.

So this is good sign right? And it's also ok to be feeding my nem's this kind of shrimp right?


Thanks
Eric

GREAT!!! It is good to feed him that. Later you can feed him silversides which are a lot cheaper usually, once he gets back to normal.