Ginger works with ich... Every time I use it
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msmith619
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Actually, the protozoan infections I treat are mostly vaginal (Trichomonas vaginalis) and intestinal (Giardia lamblia). I have not run into many urinary protozoan infections, although, Trichomonas can live there. Yes, these are bot anaerobic. But, the Metrinidazole is systemic, not urinary or it would not be effective in eradicating infections in these sites.
My assumption is that, if we as humans take it orally for cure of protozoan infections, my cannot we try it orally on our reef fishes?
"Trichomonas vaginalis is an anaerobic, flagellated protozoan, a form of microorganism. The parasitic microorganism is the causative agent of trichomoniasis, and is the most common pathogenic protozoan infection of humans in industrialized countries.[1] Infection rates between men and women are the same with women showing symptoms while infections in men are usually asymptomatic. Transmission takes place usually directly because the trophozoite does not have a cyst. The WHO has estimated that 160 million cases of infection are acquired annually worldwide.[2] The estimates for North America alone are between 5 and 8 million new infections each year, with an estimated rate of asymptomatic cases as high as 50%.[3] Usually treatment consists of metronidazole and tinidazole."
"Giardia lamblia is a flagellated protozoan parasite that colonizes and reproduces in the small intestine, causing giardiasis. The parasite attaches to the epithelium by a ventral adhesive disc, and reproduces via binary fission.[1] Giardiasis does not spread via the bloodstream, nor does it spread to other parts of the gastrointestinal tract, but remains confined to the lumen of the small intestine.[2] Giardia trophozoites absorb their nutrients from the lumen of the small intestine, and are anaerobes. If the organism is split and stained, its characteristic pattern resembles the familiar "smiley face" symbol. Chief pathways of human infection include ingestion of untreated sewage, a phenomenon particularly common in many developing countries;[3] contamination of natural waters also occurs in watersheds where intensive grazing occurs. Human infection is conventionally treated with metronidazole, tinidazole or nitazoxanide."
blanden.adam
Team RC
mssmith619: Please note that the urinary tract comment was in reference to nitrofurantoin, as per the comment you quoted. Thus, it's primary indication is for chronic UTI's.
Metronidazole is a different issue. And you are right, there is no reason why it wouldn't work, IF cryptocaryon irritans has ferredoxin and an anerobic situation in which to use it, neither of which we know (or at least I don't, maybe someone else does). If it does, then it may work, if it doesn't, then it is doubtful based on what is known about the mechanism of action of metronidazole.
michaellee64
New member
Yes it can be eradicated with proven techniques... But what about those of us that do have it in our systems due to one bad misjudgment or bringing it in on a coral or invert? I do quarantine everything I bring into my system, but somehow managed to introduce it into my system. I have 3 DT's tied into one central system, and have no way to catch, much less quarantine and treat my livestock. My last addition was an Achiles who contracted ich when I introduced him to my DT and was bullied for the first couple of weeks. He fought it for about 6 weeks, and has now been without any visible cysts for approximately 9 months. My plan at this time is to not introduce any more fish for another year or so, and hope for a remote chance that the strain will die off.
Years ago I stuggled with hope and cope for several years in a reef tank and didn't add new fish. I chose not to take the tank down to catch and remove the fish for a number of reasons similar to yours The strain did did expire and several of the survivors are still there. I used garlic, rigid attention to war quailty and parameters, uv strilizers and a long list of other alleged remrdies but evey once in awhile a few spots showed up n these partially immune fish anyway.I don't think I used bad judgement but relied on bad information about this parasite and alternative cures. I post to help otherd avoid this mistake.
BTW, a Paracanthurus( Blue hippo ) and a Zebrassoma xanthurum(purple tang) both over 8 yars old now are among the survivors. Many fish died along the way, however.
After a full year of no visible spots , I introduced a pretreatd and quarantined very healthy Chevron tang and kept it in a separate tank for several months. An outbreak ensued within a day killing it . For a time I tried putting new pretreated and quarantined fish in a separate tank connected to the main tank so I could move them if the in tank ich got them. It did ; after several tries over several months , I backed off and just waited another year. Finally, it abated. To be certain though . I didfinally remove the fish and left it fishlessfor 11 weeks before integrating other tanks to it.
Adherence to the protocol linked in my earlier post has kept the enitre system which now has over 50 fish ich free for over 6 years now. It's a great felling to be able to introduce a new fish knowing my tank won't kill it.
Looking back ,I regret not taking the fish out and treating them and keeping the tank fishless sooner.
I think the chances of an invert or coral bringing it in are remote,btw unless the particular specimen was in tank with an ich infestation along the way and a cyst settled on it's shell or the rock to which it is attached.
BTW, a Paracanthurus( Blue hippo ) and a Zebrassoma xanthurum(purple tang) both over 8 yars old now are among the survivors. Many fish died along the way, however.
After a full year of no visible spots , I introduced a pretreatd and quarantined very healthy Chevron tang and kept it in a separate tank for several months. An outbreak ensued within a day killing it . For a time I tried putting new pretreated and quarantined fish in a separate tank connected to the main tank so I could move them if the in tank ich got them. It did ; after several tries over several months , I backed off and just waited another year. Finally, it abated. To be certain though . I didfinally remove the fish and left it fishlessfor 11 weeks before integrating other tanks to it.
Adherence to the protocol linked in my earlier post has kept the enitre system which now has over 50 fish ich free for over 6 years now. It's a great felling to be able to introduce a new fish knowing my tank won't kill it.
Looking back ,I regret not taking the fish out and treating them and keeping the tank fishless sooner.
I think the chances of an invert or coral bringing it in are remote,btw unless the particular specimen was in tank with an ich infestation along the way and a cyst settled on it's shell or the rock to which it is attached.
The sculpin
New member
Is it safe assume, if you add a fish to a system that is living with ich and the new fish has a different strain of ich that you are strengthening the gene pool of the old strain and making matters much worse?
tang named junkyard
Well-known member
Still no signs of ich after ginger. I'm not even dosing now.
vitz
New member
ich ranges in size from about 1/20th to 1/40th of a millimeter (trophont stage).
your eyes, unaided, simply can't resolve something that size. you could be looking right at it on a fish, and you wouldn't see it at all.
i'm not sure then, which signs you're talking about, as the trophont stage poses no visible sign to the human eye. the only sign of any kind i could think of would be the 'secondary' behavioral sign(s) of irritability, scratching/flashing, fin folding/flaring,rapid breathing, etc. none of which are 'proof indicators' by their non presence.
if you're saying 'no sign of cysts', fine. but that doesn't = 'no signs of ich'. not all stages of ich have a visible sign. the only treatments that can be said to actually work MUST be applied for the known life cycle length of the parasite, and assuming a staggered cyst hatch from day of treatment.
the way you're prescribed antibiotics and instructed to use them for 'x' time frame, specifically, is analogous. you usually begin to feel and look better, sometimes 100%, when there's still bad bugs in yer system. you keep taking them for the prescribed time to *make sure* you get as close to 100% kill as current knowledge of the *bug's biology* and rules dictate, to avoid a relapse, even a 'low level' relapse.
you've still done nothing to ensure you won't get ich again, and possibly to a greater extent.
(i didn't write these rules of biology, i'm just trying to relay them onwards, heh.). the knowns of ich aren't a matter of my, or anyone else's, for that matter, *opinion(s)*. it's factual data borne out by research/experimentation over decades (and ongoing) by biologists, microbiologists, ichthyologists, ad infinitum-and there's a definite known consensus as to not only what works, but WHY, as well. w/ proof!
it's discouraging to me to see so many, so often, just... seem to be willing and able to toss all that out the window first, in favor of trying any completely unfounded method that has no indication, even, of having any quality towards a specific type lifeform, in the knowledge base. it's borders on being arrogant towards knowledge itself, in a way,and kind of disrespectful to the animals, or the investment, financial or otherwise, imo. it's *not* taking a known cure in favor of using a completely unknown treatment. i will never be able to understand that type of reasoning, i guess.
(i know i wouldn't want my doc to propose some new fangled absolutely hypothetically reasoned out treatment to me as a 1st option to fix my shoulder as opposed to what's already known by orthopedic surgeons who've been cutting up folks alive and dead for decades to learn how a shoulder's actually built. and i'd think him crazy for making the suggestion. why do people approach their investments differently? when did that logic become inferior ? )
<scratches head> :crazy1::headwally:
here's a pretty good link everyone should read over and over again until it's in their blood, on ich :
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
The sculpin
New member
In the free swimming stage is the parasite mobile and actively looking for a host? Or is it drifting around like a jelly fish hoping to find a host?
Osama
New member
Thanks for the link and the education provided here. For us hobbyist we are looking for the easy solution but unfortunately none exists for getting rid of ich in an established tank. I am setting up a large tank and will take all measures I know of to not introduce ich into the new tank.. Easier said than done. Nevertheless facts as stated above at least make us aware of what to expect and what needs to be done,. Whether we follow it or not is up to us individual hobbyist .. My Thanks.. I used garlic in my previous setups and somehow I thought I got ich licked in my tank till the next episode of outbreak occurred and I never realized that the parasite remained alive somehow in my tanks.. Keep the good info coming please
tang named junkyard
Well-known member
Still no signs of ich. OP
DopeCantWin
Active member
It worked for me. I got a dispar anthias the other day which had ich . I treated the tank and food every day for a few days then skipped a day then did another treatment and the anthias has made a complete turn around with no signs of ich.
The Ich is likely still there, the fish is still suffering, but you can't see it. Normal part of the cycle.
FlyPenFly
SPS Killer
I've treated a fish with ich with copper, I used testing to accurately put in a little over the recommended amount.
After 2 months in the copper tank, I moved the tang to a brand-new tank with brand new dry rock and new dead sand with no other fish. The fish still got ich.
I do not believe copper is the cure all that it's made out to be. I think it can keep some ich in check but once removed, it seems to make a come back.
After 2 months in the copper tank, I moved the tang to a brand-new tank with brand new dry rock and new dead sand with no other fish. The fish still got ich.
I do not believe copper is the cure all that it's made out to be. I think it can keep some ich in check but once removed, it seems to make a come back.
shifty51008
12-5 Chiefs record
i'm not saying you did the copper treatment wrong or anything, but ich can't come back if completly removed from the fish and tank as it is a parasite. it has to be introduced again.
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