Ginger works with ich... Every time I use it

[vitz]

Sorry to hear that. I've lost few fish of my own and it's always an upsetting event. Well, that's the price we have to pay for experience somehow. e now have two things we need to work on.

1. Clean the DT of any Ich. The lifecycle of Ich is about 10-14 days and typically without a host, Ich will die. Some will tell you to run the tank 'fallow' i.e., without any fish for a much longer time (wweks). I have never done that and not sure what the jury is on this. Keep in mind that there are many parameters 'hidden' behind anyone's experience. Typically the longer the better, of course. Make sure UV is running continuously during fallow period.

2. Setting Up a Quarantine/Hospital Tank: Two things to keep in mind here. Tank needs to be large enough so the fish is not stressed (Tangs need a lot of swimming space) and yet, especially if you'll be medicating, you'd need frequent (almost daily) water changes. The bigger the tank, the more water+salt u'd be flushing down ... I have a 20L I use as hospital.

3. Fish purchase: Get your fish from a 'trusted' source. The typical LFS is 'not' your friend, and most need to turn over their stock asap. I'll be 'flamed' for that comment.

4. Fish Treatment: I'd say put the new fish in the QT/hospital Tank and observe for any signs of disease (there is a subforum for this). You can play it safe and medicate anyway, but it's a fine-line between ensuring fish recovers from his stressful journey and medicating heavily. Typical treatment would be: Copper, Malachite Green, and Prazipro.

Hope this helps. There is also a subforum on fish disease+treatment and it might be worthwhile to get input from experienced people there as well.

Good Luck, and hope this helps.

it most certainly isn't 10-14 days. not by a long shot. prazipro is not an effective treatment for ich either.

i'd really like to know where you're getting this from, if you wouldn't mind sharing your source

 

[JB63]

it most certainly isn't 10-14 days. not by a long shot. prazipro is not an effective treatment for ich either.

i'd really like to know where you're getting this from, if you wouldn't mind sharing your source

I never said prazipro was for Ich ... but since weak fish are susceptible to bacterial infections and parasites, might as well throw the kitchen sink and give them a clean bill of health ... before you put them in a 500G tank.

Here is something for you. Rather than objecting to everything I write, why don't you spend your time more constructively and help a fellow reefer (Osama) who's struggling with his tank. So far you have not provided a single iota of help, you're just objecting to what people write (based on their OWN experience) ... Or maybe it is 'your' time of the month, isn't it?

 

[vitz]

I never said prazipro was for Ich ... but since weak fish are susceptible to bacterial infections and parasites, might as well throw the kitchen sink and give them a clean bill of health ... before you put them in a 500G tank.

Here is something for you. Rather than objecting to everything I write, why don't you spend your time more constructively and help a fellow reefer (Osama) who's struggling with his tank. So far you have not provided a single iota of help, you're just objecting to what people write (based on their OWN experience) ... Or maybe it is 'your' time of the month, isn't it?

the only thing i'm objecting to is misinformation, and i've posted some quite valid and informative posts and links to valid ich info on this very thread. the link i posted to the factual data on ich's life cycle/treatment is pretty much all anyone needs to read to have the necessary tools to treat ich properly. would you like me to get the post link for you ?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22074864&postcount=309

nice ad hominem reply, btw.

 

[JB63]

Thanks for the link. It seems many on here try to prove you wrong 'before' they begin to help you (Read up few posts above and you'll understand). I'll read that link and educate myself a bit more, seems things have changed quite a bit over the past 10 years.

In any event, any specific advice you can provide Osama (in this thread) regarding what he needs to do about his tank/hospital?

Thanks.

 

[Osama]

I just posted the following on my thread:;; Now I obviously have ich in my DT. Couple of fish show it and a couple more are scratching..Cannot catch the fish till they are almost dead and only if they do not go under my 1200lbs of rock. Should I decrease the salinity to 1.08 in the DT and would that kill the ich and not the corals or inverts or just let it be and hope for the best.. Right now I am letting it be with UV on. No need to know anymore how I got it or what caused it .. focus now is to fix this situation as best as can be done and many thanks

 

[Allmost]

I just posted the following on my thread:;; Now I obviously have ich in my DT. Couple of fish show it and a couple more are scratching..Cannot catch the fish till they are almost dead and only if they do not go under my 1200lbs of rock. Should I decrease the salinity to 1.08 in the DT and would that kill the ich and not the corals or inverts or just let it be and hope for the best.. Right now I am letting it be with UV on. No need to know anymore how I got it or what caused it .. focus now is to fix this situation as best as can be done and many thanks

you have a beautiful display tank, with rocks, and corals, do not ruin those trying to fix the disease with fish. you could also be dealing with some other sort of disease that hypo salinity might not take care of !

if I were you, I would get a fish trap, and only feed in there. you will catch most of the fish that way. as most of us do. then treat those separately.

OR

let it be ! see how it goes. do as much water changes as you possibly can, clean the tank as much as you can, and feed variety of stuff, again as much as u can.

JMHO.

 

[vitz]

Thanks for the link. It seems many on here try to prove you wrong 'before' they begin to help you (Read up few posts above and you'll understand). I'll read that link and educate myself a bit more, seems things have changed quite a bit over the past 10 years.

In any event, any specific advice you can provide Osama (in this thread) regarding what he needs to do about his tank/hospital?

Thanks.

you didn't bother to read this thread in it's totality, and made a baseless, childish, and unfounded personal attack on me-so why should i bother to listen to you and your requests?

even w/your poor backpedal attempt, you still offered no apology for a personal insult. time of the month indeed.

 

[Dapg8gt]

Good luck with your tank Osama but can I ask why this is on the ginger thread? I would think there are way better threads and honestly hundreds of threads pertaining to the issue that already have a conclusion. All the information you need has already been posted in this thread and probably thousands of others. It sucks but that the way it is and what it takes to completely eradicate it and/or save the fish you have.

There is a wealth of misinformation in this thread and one can get confused. I would stick with the advice given by the few on here who are stating the facts. Not someone who thinks one way because his lfs or tank ten years ago did things a certain way. Some of the info is way off base but the facts are the facts and that's exhibited with the majority on this topic.

Imo you have one of 2 options.. Catch the fish and treat them. Or let them die and wait a few months to reintroduce Healthy fish back in. That's really your only option unless you want to have ich issues forever. There isn't a magic tool that will treat it in a reef tank if there was someone would be rolling in money.

Again good luck and the best advice I can give is research everything before you do it pertaining to your reef a second opinion is the best thing you can do for your wallet and the health of your tank. This is all just my opinion and take it as that..

 

[Osama]

Thanks to all for your input and special thanks to JB allmost Dapg and Dave!! for helping me focus as I was getting confused and I am a bit (quite a bit) emotional about my reef and the creatures I elect to put in it...and I know what my choices are and will sleep on it then decide in the am..

 

[vitz]

I never said prazipro was for Ich ... but since weak fish are susceptible to bacterial infections and parasites, might as well throw the kitchen sink and give them a clean bill of health ... before you put them in a 500G tank.

Here is something for you. Rather than objecting to everything I write, why don't you spend your time more constructively and help a fellow reefer (Osama) who's struggling with his tank. So far you have not provided a single iota of help, you're just objecting to what people write (based on their OWN experience) ... Or maybe it is 'your' time of the month, isn't it?

ich directly interferes with a fish's ability to both extract oxygen from, and dump CO2 into, the water column. prazi (and formalin) lowers the O2 level of the water.

prazi is one thing you never should add to a tank where a fish is already struggling to breathe.(i'd use a similiar caution when using formalin as well). you're more than likely going to help the ich overcome the fish, than anything else.

prazi's only worthwhile application is against flukes, and all it does to them is induce a temporary paralysis-the flukes, if not subsequently removed, will awake from their torpor and swim right back up to search again for a host. nor does it affect their eggs.

malachite green is also not very effective or fast at killing ich-it's main application is as an anti-fungal-it's effects against ecoparasites is secondary, and 'more minor'.

would you go for treatment to a doctor who's method was 'throwing the kitchen' sink at you when you're ill? food for thought.

i'd still like to know where you're getting this information from. could you post a link?

 

[plowro8]

So, how am I supposed to treat for ich when I have fish affected in my DT and I have no QT or any means to get one? I have crabs and shrimp in my tank. Is there any way for me to treat my tank for ich with crabs and shrimp in the tank? If not, could I remove the crabs and shrimp and treat the tank then? I have no coral, but am looking to add some if I can get this ich situation figured out.

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

Being nasty and then putting an emoticon at the end of your post does nothing for your perception "Vitz." Not everything on here is an attack and you would catch a whole lot more fly with honey than vinegar. Why do you turn every thread into a fight?

 

[JB63]

you didn't bother to read this thread in it's totality, and made a baseless, childish, and unfounded personal attack on me-so why should i bother to listen to you and your requests?

even w/your poor backpedal attempt, you still offered no apology for a personal insult. time of the month indeed.

Look, I apologize, and I mean it ... No excuse but, I've been on here often over this holiday and it appears many on here are rather 'impatient/offending'. If I said something wrong (though it is based on MY experience), it's very simple to reply: "I beg to differ, but my experience/expertise says otherwise, shall we share and learn?". People here (including myself) come to learn, share experiences, and drool at the pictures of other tanks. Some others however, by whatever 'right' given to them by some Deity, take pleasure in objecting to every statement made. It is well known that the field of Medicine is replete with contradictory results... but that's another discussion.
My intention was not to spread mis-information (as you put it), but HELP to the 'best' of my knowledge/experience. I'm simply asking that we be civil about it ... as opposed to 'prove it, show me a link'. My experience stems from 10+ years doing this, killing several fish (early on), using right/wrong treatments ... Though lately, I do not panic when I see Ich. I've 'fine-tuned' few methods that have worked for me ... Maybe I was lucky, but so be it.

Shall we move on now ... without any pretentious presumptions?

 

[JB63]

ich directly interferes with a fish's ability to both extract oxygen from, and dump CO2 into, the water column.

Yes, early stages of Ich show as white dots on the body, but later stages infect the gills and fish is seen gasping at the surface ... as if triyng to breathe from air. I've seen that myself few times. Ich simply makes it difficult for the fish to breathe.

... prazi (and formalin) lowers the O2 level of the water.

I always run vigorous aeration while treating (multiple air-stones).

prazi's only worthwhile application is against flukes, and all it does to them is induce a temporary paralysis-the flukes, if not subsequently removed, will awake from their torpor and swim right back up to search again for a host. nor does it affect their eggs.

So, Prazi-Pro is another useless gimmick? What's the alternative?

would you go for treatment to a doctor who's method was 'throwing the kitchen' sink at you when you're ill? food for thought.

Not at all, it seems my statement was NOT very clear. I did not mean to throw all medications at once at the fish. But, if you've treated for Ich and succeeded, do not assume it is the only pathogen. Follow up with other treatments. The 'How To' notes on many of the medications state not to use such chemicals in combination.

i'd still like to know where you're getting this information from. could you post a link?

10+ years of experience, talking to various reefers, and the few LFS owners I once knew. Those were people/owners running very large setups i.e. Preuss House and Tropicorium, both in Michigan. For having successful operations, they for sure were no dummies.

BTW, both places I mentioned above are worth a visit, if you're ever in the Detroit area.

 

[Khemul]

I get the passion some people have for these things. And I get the whole blunt approach. But there is a point where attitude has the completely different effect on people than one intends. There is a point where the whole purpose is lost.

That is one of the big problems with these Ich threads. The point is pushed a little too aggressively, putting the people being informed on the defensive. And people on the defensive usually end up writing off everything that is presented to them. Vicious cycle really, because then the point gets pushed even more aggressively.

 

[JB63]

I would stick with the advice given by the few on here who are stating the facts. Not someone who thinks one way because his lfs or tank ten years ago did things a certain way.

Here we go again, very personal yet subtle attacks ... lol

Osama, my help was genuine, but by this crowd, I've been a lucky charlatan.
Good luck with your tank, and please do listen to the experts ... Though, you know what they say about experts ... The more you know, the more it is difficult to give a straight answer.

Happy Reefing Y'all

 

[dc]

Ok kids, don't make me lock yet another thread.

Stop the name calling. If you can't post without getting in a snit, don't post.

 

[FlyPenFly]

So, how am I supposed to treat for ich when I have fish affected in my DT and I have no QT or any means to get one? I have crabs and shrimp in my tank. Is there any way for me to treat my tank for ich with crabs and shrimp in the tank? If not, could I remove the crabs and shrimp and treat the tank then? I have no coral, but am looking to add some if I can get this ich situation figured out.

Petco is having a dollar gallon sale, get a 20 long or 15 gallon tank and treat.

 

[plowro8]

Petco is having a dollar gallon sale, get a 20 long or 15 gallon tank and treat.

So I put 7 fish in a 20 gallon tank (assuming I can catch them) and then treat them in that tank? Seems like that stress alone would surely kill them. What about removing the inverts in the DT and treating the fish where they already reside? Wouldn't that keep the stress levels lower?

 

[FlyPenFly]

So I put 7 fish in a 20 gallon tank (assuming I can catch them) and then treat them in that tank? Seems like that stress alone would surely kill them. What about removing the inverts in the DT and treating the fish where they already reside? Wouldn't that keep the stress levels lower?

You can do DIY fish traps.

For 7 fish, I would get a 20 and a 10. You also need some large PVC elbows and T's for shelter.

If you're going to use copper, I also suggest having a couple bags of bio media or some sponges seeded that can be transferred over.