Grading aquaculture clownfish

[PraireDogging]

In my 15 years in the hobby I've never purchased anything online. I could see buying equipment but not livestock. Then again I live in southern California so things may seem different here.
As far a grading goes it's all to subjective.

 

[Mr Cob]

Just wanted everyone to know that this thread helped me tremendously in coming up with a grading system for quality of fish within a specific grade.

While I did not keep an exact replica of any of the proposed grading methods discussed here, I did use this thread as a reference of coming up with a system that works best for our business, our stock and most importantly our customers.

Since I'm not a sponsor of RC I will not post a link but here's a copy of what's posted on our site: (I also removed the references to price so no one thinks this is a cheap post of me trying to advertise)

______________________

All clowns are WYSIWYG in the following grades:
• Platinum ($XXX)
• Grade A Premium ($XXX)
• Grade A ($XXX)
• Grade B Premium ($XX)
• Grade B ($XX)

The prices for the fish in each grade will start at the base price listed above and go down utilizing the following check point system:

• Slight Breeding Anomalies - (we deduct 10% for each noticeable imperfection on eyes, gills, jaw, spine or fins. We will not list a fish that has exaggerated imperfections or that has more than 2 imperfections, all of our breeders do their part in culling.)
• Coloration - (we deduct 10% for poor coloration such as washed out colors)
• Pattern - (we deduct 10% for underdeveloped patterns within a grade)
• Health - (we will not release a fish that has poor health)

Acclimating kits and sample food provided with purchase.

Clowns will be "named" for reference purposes....and because we can't help ourselves : )

__________________


The imperfections that we find in our stock are very minimal, we do not breed them ourselves, so the stock has already been culled but we do see some small imperfections in the stock. I also update each listing with the deductions that the fish had. For example:

Designer name: Picasso Clownfish
Scientific name: Amphiprion perculas
Region: Captive Bred
Size:
Color: mostly white with little orange and black
Lineage: XXXXXXX - removed as to not advertise
Included with purchase: Acclimating kit to include a sample pack of food that the fish are currently eating
Special notes: -10% jaw, slight overbite

Hopefully other vendors will join in and at some point convert online sites to WYSIWYG for the best possible experience for buyers. I think WYSIWYG can be a powerful tool in regards to the subject in this thread and hold vendors accountable for stock.

I really just want to say thanks for posting this discussion and for all the contributions in it.

***MODS if there is any problem with my post just let me know and I will edit it, send me a sponsorship package as well : )***

 

[trueblackpercula]

After reading this thread again it will never happen. Large breeders will never comply and the small hobbyist is the only one that will have to follow theses rules. Good luck I know I would only sell fish if they looked good to my eye but who's to say my eye is good. The only way this will work is with a true picture guide that's shows what's perfect and what's not.
Just my thoughts

 

[Mr Cob]

After reading this thread again it will never happen. Large breeders will never comply and the small hobbyist is the only one that will have to follow theses rules. Good luck I know I would only sell fish if they looked good to my eye but who's to say my eye is good. The only way this will work is with a true picture guide that's shows what's perfect and what's not.
Just my thoughts

Perhaps many will not...but we just implemented a grading system based on this thread. It's not exactly what has been discussed but it's a start. We are also not a large vendor, but we pay taxes and have a legitimate business....it's a start at implementing some sort of standard by which vendors can be held accountable for...and after implementing the grading system I posted above it dropped the price on every clown I had listed on our site. I'd say that accounts for something.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Ok lets try this then .....post a picture of one fish in each group starting with a perfect fish to a cull and lets see how the hobbyist around here feel about it.

 

[Mr Cob]

k, you are really calling me out here now. lol

I see you are a breeder, which means you probably sell clowns. I'm new here and I guess you could say I'd like to hang around for a bit before opening up the public firing squad on my stock.

Another note...I don't get clowns that are "cull" or "possible culls" since I'm not a breeder.

I'm going to think about it. I've already stepped up by implementing some sort of additional quality control check on the clowns that we get in stock that I have yet to see any vendor post or LFS adhere to, we also only sell WYSIWYG and post multiple images and videos of each clown, also another step I have yet to see other vendors do. Most just sell platinum clowns, post a pic of one, post a price and you get what they send.

I'd say just me being here as a vendor that sells designer clowns and taking an interest in this thread is at the least worthy of the efforts already put into all of the posts in this thread.

By the way, I found this thread by searching google while looking for information on grading clowns. I was curious what others were doing and I care about quality so naturally this thread was of interest to me.

So, hoping to see you all continue to build on it. I liked the ideas of some sort of society, like something that a vendor could post on their site: Member of Reef Central Captive Bred Society...just talking out loud. The society could grade clowns for the vendor. That would be cool.

 

[trueblackpercula]

You got me all wrong.....all I am saying is that what is trying to be done is almost impossible to do. Take a look at my post where I posted a picture of my female that I thought was perfect but it was told to me that she was not. I guess what I am trying to say is what is perfect to me is not to the next person.

 

[Mr Cob]

ah, ok, I see

 

[deangelr]

I think it can work.. Just by talking about culls, deformities, etc.. we are making people aware of what to look for.. Your clownfish were very nice.. I sort of judge percula clowns like a Labdrador.. Big head, large even jaws, large upper body, and very proportional.. LOL.. But if it looks good, no uneven fins, over/under bits, weird body shapes, etc.. And has the full baring pattern of a typical clown of that species.. I would call it an A1. The slight bend in the 3rd stripe may not make it "perfect", but it is the of the highest quality fish, IMO..

Another note.. but similar.. I think we have to start our grading with the traditional clowns.. Designer clowns are just too tough to judge. The patterns are all so different that opinions are too subjective.. Or, you can only really judge them by their physical features. We can't grade those patterns.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Ok here is an example of my young pair of Ora grade A Picassos. Sorry for the bad picture but the move around way to much male is on top female is on the bottom.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Here is a pair I onced owned in a S.GIGANTEA

 

[Mr Cob]

the first pair have what I label on my site as slight jaw imperfections (underbites) and I deduct 10% off for that and it's noted in the notes section of the fish being sold, while I agree that they are Grade A, anything worse than that and I would not list them on my site. I will list a fish with up to 2 imperfections but they have to be slight, any major imperfections will not get listed. The pair in the S.GIGANTEA looks great.

 

[Mr Cob]

another thought...since I've been grading all of our clowns and the imperfections are so slight, most of them I can't even tell until I take pictures. All of our clowns are in tanks too...imagine a vendor trying to grade these things in vats from top down...not possible unless they pull them for inspection.

That's why WYSIWYG is so important in being held accountable for what you are selling, though I will admit it takes SOOOO much time to do wysiwyg, though I think it's worth it.

 

[deangelr]

If we are going to grade the "picassoness" then I personally wouldn't give either of those an "A" grade.. A quality fish should have symmetrical patterns IMO..

 

[trueblackpercula]

Their it is I think there great looking fish but not perfect I must admit.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Ok so let me test the waters here.
$250 For perfect pair
$250 -10% Is $225 for one imperfection is this correct?

 

[Mr Cob]

yes I deduct 10% from the base price if there's an imperfection but I will not sell a fish with more than 2 imperfections and the imperfections must be slight not major.

AND I don't sell them for that much either.

In my opinion a grade A has a lot of white and has 2 connecting bars...

 

[trueblackpercula]

Can you send me a pm with your web page please? Also my female as three connecting bars does this bring a premium?

 

[Mr Cob]

for us, yes, 3 connecting bars would be labeled as Grade A Premium....as long as the white is significant in it's coverage area.

In my opinion when grading picassos you are grading the amount of white. Symmetrical patterns IMO are a preference but very well could make the difference from a normal grade and a premium.