Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!
- Thread starter mwp
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mwp
In Memoriam
So here's the plan for this spawn - the eggs are under the microscope at 60X getting TIMELAPSED; 1 picture per minute. I'm going to let it go until at least 16 hours (if we can make it that long - I've already had to make one adjustment to focus and positioning about an hour in).
The rest? Well, the rest are in parental water in a very small container with a gentle air feed...not very hopeful but the larval tank just wasn't ready for them. This was a small spawn anyways...there should be larger ones coming in the next week - plenty of time to get ready and no spawn goes to waste!
MP
The rest? Well, the rest are in parental water in a very small container with a gentle air feed...not very hopeful but the larval tank just wasn't ready for them. This was a small spawn anyways...there should be larger ones coming in the next week - plenty of time to get ready and no spawn goes to waste!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
OK, so I don't have an exact timeframe on this spawn which is a touch annoying..I'll do all of this again when I witness a spawn so we can get BETTER info. I probably got this all figured out around 12:00 AM and shot 90 minutes of time lapse, 1 shot frame per minute. It's still going now, so the next movie will likely be something like 1:20 to 9:00 AM or something, or maybe if it's going well I'll just leave it alone.
Anyways, 90 minutes of mandarin egg developement at 60X in .avi format (about 1.83 MB in size).
This is SOOOO FREAKIN' COOL! - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/first90minutes.avi
MP
Anyways, 90 minutes of mandarin egg developement at 60X in .avi format (about 1.83 MB in size).
This is SOOOO FREAKIN' COOL! - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/first90minutes.avi
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Hmm...they actually gave me problems too if I just tried to click the link. SUPPOSEDLY the Quicktime 5 player will play back these .avi files, however on my laptop I have to download to the hard drive and open the .avi with Windows Media Player in order for it to work properly.
I don't have any of my good 'ole "professional" video software anymore; I'll have to dig around to see what I can do to convert these.
Matt
I don't have any of my good 'ole "professional" video software anymore; I'll have to dig around to see what I can do to convert these.
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
OK, so some quick updates on the vid. After the first 1.5 hours I posted, I got another 7 hours of vid which I ended this morning. I LOST the next 5 hours and 45 minutes of vid because apparently the was a power flicker. The next 2.85 hours of vid got captured, but during that time the eggs sank and left the viewable range. So just now I repositioned everything and started it back up again...not sure if we'll get to see anything hatch or not. I'll probably have all the video I got posted online late tonight.
Matt
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Approximately 1:30 AM to 8:30 AM - further egg development - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/next420minutes.avi
Approximately 12:45 PM to 3:35+ PM - eggs developing but then SINK to the bottom early on in the shot (guestimating around 1:15 PM or so) - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/early_afternoon.avi
The last one is post sinking - it looks like everything stops developing and simply is dead - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/last_egg_developmentclip.avi
So there you have it...not quite the full length feature presentation I was hoping for, but a start. It's pretty clear that pretty much all the eggs start out fertilized, but at some point in the process they stop developing before hatching and more or less sink. In this particular instance the eggs were in a small circular container that comes with the microscope...think of something the size of one side of a contact lense case...
Well...this chopped up set of videos DOES answer some questions but only really raises more...i.e. why are the eggs dying vs. hatching? I know a lot of folks have suggested the use of various medications to prevent infection, but is that really a problem? Afterall, we're dealing with a window of 12-16 hours vs. several DAYS.
Do any of you see anything special in the vids that makes you go "aha, I know what the problem is"?
MP
Approximately 12:45 PM to 3:35+ PM - eggs developing but then SINK to the bottom early on in the shot (guestimating around 1:15 PM or so) - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/early_afternoon.avi
The last one is post sinking - it looks like everything stops developing and simply is dead - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/last_egg_developmentclip.avi
So there you have it...not quite the full length feature presentation I was hoping for, but a start. It's pretty clear that pretty much all the eggs start out fertilized, but at some point in the process they stop developing before hatching and more or less sink. In this particular instance the eggs were in a small circular container that comes with the microscope...think of something the size of one side of a contact lense case...
Well...this chopped up set of videos DOES answer some questions but only really raises more...i.e. why are the eggs dying vs. hatching? I know a lot of folks have suggested the use of various medications to prevent infection, but is that really a problem? Afterall, we're dealing with a window of 12-16 hours vs. several DAYS.
Do any of you see anything special in the vids that makes you go "aha, I know what the problem is"?
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
One more note; in the last video, post sinking, watch the egg in the upper right hand corner. Early in the video it undergoes a relatively rapid series of changes..the rest kinda stay the same...
In any case, for the record, NONE of the eggs hatched. My first thought goes back to parental nutrition now...are the eggs not getting enough energy or the right kind of nutrients packed in in order to hatch properly? Just an idea...
Matt
In any case, for the record, NONE of the eggs hatched. My first thought goes back to parental nutrition now...are the eggs not getting enough energy or the right kind of nutrients packed in in order to hatch properly? Just an idea...
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, we got home late after visiting some of Renee's friends...the tank lights were on VERY late, about 1:45 AM. As soon as I turned out the lights, it looked like some courtship occured, but then our pair disappeared. Knowing that the rest of the room lights were still on, they usually won't spawn in those light levels. SO....I emptied out the larval tank (I had filled it with scalding freshwater earlier in the week following it's bleaching), did a quick 5 gallon water change on the mandarin's tank...used the parental water in the larval tank and added 5 ML bleach, then turned everything off, and now finally have sat down to record what I did. I don't expect any spawn tonight...it's probably too late, but tomorrow? Highly likely....that'll give me enough time to dechlor the larval tank late in the afternoon and give them another go!
FWIW,
MP
FWIW,
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
So it's another frustrating evening with the mandarins...we were again out and about, arriving home around 11:00 PM...things looked like *maybe* there was going to be a spawn, although the female didn't have the typical swollen genital opening. I'm starting to think that's a key sign...can't really say an ovipositor extends from the body, but the general genital opening DOES become swollen and perhaps a bit distended.
In anticipation of a spawn, I dechlored the larval tank water. OF COURSE by midnight the lights had been out a while, pumps off, and both mandarins were sleeping....totally uncooperative given the level of preparation I've offered for their offspring!
I'm pretty confident at this point that part of what gets them going is HEAVY feeding in the days prior to spawning. If I'm gone for a weekend or even only around to feed once per day, the following days it seems the female is not interested in spawning. Conversely, if I'm home all week feeding 3-4 meals per day, that seems to be when they really kick into high gear, spawning as often as every night.
Oh well, considering their "dailed back" feeding this weekend it'll probably be Wed. before they spawn again.
MP
In anticipation of a spawn, I dechlored the larval tank water. OF COURSE by midnight the lights had been out a while, pumps off, and both mandarins were sleeping....totally uncooperative given the level of preparation I've offered for their offspring!
I'm pretty confident at this point that part of what gets them going is HEAVY feeding in the days prior to spawning. If I'm gone for a weekend or even only around to feed once per day, the following days it seems the female is not interested in spawning. Conversely, if I'm home all week feeding 3-4 meals per day, that seems to be when they really kick into high gear, spawning as often as every night.
Oh well, considering their "dailed back" feeding this weekend it'll probably be Wed. before they spawn again.
MP
demonboy279
New member
i might have misssed this but how many babies do they usually have?
mwp
In Memoriam
TitoTee, I use good 'ole Chicago Tapwater...it's actaully pretty good for tap water usually.
Chuck, the number of eggs, when counted, has varied from 200 to 600+. Actual HATCH rates though have remained low...the most I've ever had hatch is maybe 3 dozen, but usually less, most often just one or two or NONE!
Matt
Chuck, the number of eggs, when counted, has varied from 200 to 600+. Actual HATCH rates though have remained low...the most I've ever had hatch is maybe 3 dozen, but usually less, most often just one or two or NONE!
Matt
I really hope you don't mind, and if you do, I'll be happy to remove it for you, but because people were having difficulty viewing the file, I converted it to FLV (flash) format and posted it on my video blog site. The link is:
http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115596
If you'd like, I can do the others, too. Or, if you're upset, I'll be happy to remove it ...
(By the way, the codec you're using actually broke the 'default' conversion format, too - I can work around it, and I'm actually glad it happened, because I'll now be fixing it for the general population, too).
mwp
In Memoriam
Jeff, I don't mind one bit; I have so much going on that I don't have time to convert this stuff into Flash and what not; after some folks had problems with viewing Flash I just opted to throw up vids in whatever default format they were originally produced (I know, you just need a plugin, I'm a freakin' Flash developer).
Anyway, I don't mind at all if folks want to take the vids and help redistribute them in other formats (besides, I'm again running out of server space), so Jeff, feel free to convert and repost to your heart's content, just don't try to claim copyright
MP
Anyway, I don't mind at all if folks want to take the vids and help redistribute them in other formats (besides, I'm again running out of server space), so Jeff, feel free to convert and repost to your heart's content, just don't try to claim copyright
MP
Ah, using Vobbo the conversion is easy and automated. Hell, if you're a flash developer, you may have heard of my employer (begins with 2A).
Anyway, video #2 is at: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115598
I'll post #3 shortly.
Anyway, video #2 is at: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115598
I'll post #3 shortly.
Also:
- Video #3: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115599
- Video #4: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115600
Interesting series, thanks for posting them.
- Video #3: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115599
- Video #4: http://www.vobbo.com/user/jeff/entry/115600
Interesting series, thanks for posting them.
mwp
In Memoriam
Thanks for posting them up Jeff...they do work a LOT better than the .avi's that the Digital Blue software spits out 
I'll be trying another series like this on the next spawn or two from now...ultimately I just want to let it run from start to finish in one shot (and hopefully no power interruptions on the next attempt!)
Speaking of "next spawns", it's still anyone's guess when that's going to happen. The 2nd female mandarin is only doing "OK"...she's still not feeding with GUSTO and appears to be getting skinny...time to bring back the ENRICHED LIVE BRINE for a while. The chances of her getting along with the existing female mandarin are looking pretty slim...while I commented a couple weeks ago that it seemed they might be getting along, it seems lately that our first female spends much of her day trying to attack #2 through the breeder net....that and #1 has figured out how to slurp food through the bottom of the netting!
Matt
I'll be trying another series like this on the next spawn or two from now...ultimately I just want to let it run from start to finish in one shot (and hopefully no power interruptions on the next attempt!)
Speaking of "next spawns", it's still anyone's guess when that's going to happen. The 2nd female mandarin is only doing "OK"...she's still not feeding with GUSTO and appears to be getting skinny...time to bring back the ENRICHED LIVE BRINE for a while. The chances of her getting along with the existing female mandarin are looking pretty slim...while I commented a couple weeks ago that it seemed they might be getting along, it seems lately that our first female spends much of her day trying to attack #2 through the breeder net....that and #1 has figured out how to slurp food through the bottom of the netting!
Matt
FishGuttz
New member
Interesting abstracts about calcium and egg development, fish and other animals. I wish I knew what they were talking about. One article suggested that using a calcium buffer inhibits cell growth, but they injected the cells with buffer to test it.
http://mkat.iwf.de/Kat_Details.aspx?Signatur=C+1736&Language=en
http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/abstract/115/5/1259
http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/1/25
http://mkat.iwf.de/Kat_Details.aspx?Signatur=C+1736&Language=en
http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/abstract/115/5/1259
http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/1/25
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