Guess the Phosphate level

Work tests - Nitrate down from 101 to 84. Phosphate holding steady at around 2.0. Seeing some STN. May quit the ATS.

AWT tests
Home Display - 12 of 12
11-13-2014 Ammonia (NH3-4) Good 0 0.000 - 0.050 mg/L
11-13-2014 Nitrite (NO2) Good 0.026 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L
11-13-2014 Phosphate (PO4) High 2.02 0.000 - 0.250 mg/L
11-13-2014 Nitrate (NO3) Good 12.9 0.000 - 25.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Silica (Sio2-3) High 0.6 0.000 - 0.500 mg/L
11-13-2014 Potassium (K) Good 411 350.000 - 450.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Ionic Calcium (Ca) Good 185 100.000 - 300.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Boron (B) NA NA 3.000 - 6.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Molybdenum (Mo) Good 0.1 0.000 - 0.300 mg/L
11-13-2014 Strontium (Sr) Good 7.6 5.000 - 12.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Magnesium (Mg) High 1420 1100.000 - 1400.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Iodine (I) Good 0.06 0.030 - 0.090 mg/L
11-13-2014 Copper (Cu) Good 0.04 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L
11-13-2014 Alkalinity (meq/L) Good 4 2.500 - 5.000 meq/L
11-13-2014 Total Calcium (Ca) Good 430 350.000 - 450.000 mg/L
11-13-2014 Iron (Fe) NA NA 0.000 - 0.010 mg/L
 
Maybe this is a silly question, but doesn't the test say 12.9 for Nitrates? Can you teach me how to read the AWT if it's actually 84? :)
 
IMHO, there are too many variables when dealing with reeftanks, no two tanks are the same. You might have the same volume of water and exactly the same gear as someone else, but your tanks will never be alike. Aquascape, husbandry and even room lighting are just a few of the many variables that could change everything.

With that being said, there is no universal recipe for the perfect tank, you have to feel your tanks need. I only learned that after I stopped following successful threads step by step, I have been away from the forums and have been working in my tank on a personal way. And it has been doing so much better now. I found my own recipe... the skeptical method worked for me, I achieved nice color and growth rate. I am starting a second home reef now, and will be trying to keep all the parameters in the "standard ideal", lets see which one will do better... =D

One thing I learned through out the year is, STABILITY is key. You better of having stable high PO4 than keep chasing it like crazy causing daily fluctuations.

Happy Reefing everyone!
-Tony
 
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I also noticed that most tanks that do good with high phosphate levels are tanks that have been running for many years, and are very well matured. What you guys think about that?

Edit: Rich, I just noticed one of your lastest tests show Alk at lower than 4! That is something!
 
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It seems the nitrate on AWT tests needs to be multiplied by 4.4 (it reports in NO3-N rather than NO3-) to be on the scale that we all use (NO3-). So work reports 84, and converted AWT would be 56. AWT has always reported Nitrate lower than work tests, so I take it with a bucket of salt.

Dropping the ATS because of the RTN/STN and because it is have no/little effect on Phosphate. Some algae has been shown to cause RTN in SPS. Is that the cause? Is the different balance in N to P the cause? Dunno. But the thing I changed that correlated with RTN/STN was much attention to the ATS. So, not wanting to overly risk my home tanks inhabitants, the ATS has been removed.

Truthfully, the ATS was a pain in my benign neglect tank management regimen. Scraping the screens is a chore in my crawlspace. If I just wanted to lower nitrate, vinegar dosing is so much easier.
 
Thales said:
Dropping the ATS because of the RTN/STN and because it is have no/little effect on Phosphate. Some algae has been shown to cause RTN in SPS. Is that the cause? Is the different balance in N to P the cause? Dunno. But the thing I changed that correlated with RTN/STN was much attention to the ATS. So, not wanting to overly risk my home tanks inhabitants, the ATS has been removed.
Click to expand...

Following along to see if the RTN/STN subsides after removal of the ATS.

If this is indeed the case, could look at the ATS and it's apparent deliterious effect on your coral in a couple different ways:

1. The algae may have been adding exudates that adversely affected your coral, either directly or indirectly.

2. The algae may have been removing substances (possibly trace elements) that your corals relied upon for good health.

3. The algae may have been competing with in-tank bacteria fauna for resources. Could have significantly reduced bacterial counts and/or unfavorably altered the bacterial fauna species. Reseach is indicating that bacteria comprise a larger part of a corals nutrition than previously realized and if that resource was sufficiently reduced it *could* have weakened the corals.

Ralph -
 
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Nano sapiens said:
Following along to see if the RTN/STN subsides after removal of the ATS.

If this is indeed the case, could look at the ATS and it's apparent deliterious effect on your coral in a couple different ways:

1. The algae may have been adding exudates that adversely affected your coral, either directly or indirectly.

2. The algae may have been removing substances (possibly trace elements) that your corals relied upon for good health.

3. The algae may have been competing with in-tank bacteria fauna for resources. Could have significantly reduced bacterial counts and/or unfavorably altered the bacterial fauna species. Reseach is indicating that bacteria comprise a larger part of a corals nutrition than previously realized and if that resource was sufficiently reduced it *could* have weakened the corals.

Ralph -
Click to expand...


#4:wave:
 
It is #4, the unknown. Everything about this tank is #4, the variable we can't measure or determine, just speculate about.
 
#4
Even if the RTN/STN stopped after the ATS was removed (which it did) the RTN/STN may have nothing at all to do with the ATS.
To address the RTN/STN, the ATS was removed, carbon was changed, DI resin was changed and a water change was preformed.
 
Thales said:
#4
Even if the RTN/STN stopped after the ATS was removed (which it did) the RTN/STN may have nothing at all to do with the ATS.
Click to expand...

...or it may.

Thales said:
To address the RTN/STN, the ATS was removed, carbon was changed, DI resin was changed and a water change was preformed.
Click to expand...

Once the RTN/STN is reversed and the corals are healthy again, would be interesting to put the ATS back in use to see if the issue repeats.
 
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Yesterday I watched Justin Credable's MACNA lecture on BRS TV. His point about a possible "Redfield"-like ratio between Potassium and C/N/P caught my attention. He was tentatively advocating for the appropriateness of dosing K to achieve higher-than-natural levels. The logic is [roughly] that since we have higher N & P levels than in NSW (which is why we dose C), we might as well elevate the level of K.

I thought "Aha, I'll check Rich's Guess the PO4 Level thread! I'll bet he has very-high K levels." Apparently no, your levels were within normal range, so I'm not quite so clever as I thought.

Just as an aside, do you dose Potassium, at home and at the Steinhart?
 
Nano sapiens said:
...or it may.



Once the RTN/STN is reversed and the corals are healthy again, would be interesting to put the ATS back in use to see if the issue repeats.
Click to expand...

I actually have never trusted the idea of an ATS. Too much research showing that there can be warfare between the algae and the SPS coral. I also don't believe they will do anything for phosphate, which my testing supported.

That said I don't think there is enough evidence to say the ATS made the corals STN. There is correlation, but not causation, so I am wary of blaming it outright.

I think no way am I experimenting on the tank again with products on which that the manufactures haven't done the basic testing, and which have so many schools of thought that no matter what I were to do, if the results didn't indicate success, I would be told that I did it wrong.

No doubt that ATS will use nitrate. Phosphate, we have some more evidence that it doesn't. I currently have the unit on my breeding system, where I am sure the nitrate is high, but have no sps to worry about.
 
rlpardue said:
Yesterday I watched Justin Credable's MACNA lecture on BRS TV. His point about a possible "Redfield"-like ratio between Potassium and C/N/P caught my attention. He was tentatively advocating for the appropriateness of dosing K to achieve higher-than-natural levels. The logic is [roughly] that since we have higher N & P levels than in NSW (which is why we dose C), we might as well elevate the level of K.

I thought "Aha, I'll check Rich's Guess the PO4 Level thread! I'll bet he has very-high K levels." Apparently no, your levels were within normal range, so I'm not quite so clever as I thought.

Just as an aside, do you dose Potassium, at home and at the Steinhart?
Click to expand...

I love Justin, and would love to see some basic controlled experiments about his ideas rather than anecdote, because, well, anecdote is anecdote. I have dosed KCl at home and work in the past, but never saw anything that made me feel the time and effort were worth it. As an aside, KCl seems to make a dandy aptasia killing slurry. Sometimes I have even mixed it with Kalk.
 
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