Guess the Phosphate level

Thales said:
I think no way am I experimenting on the tank again with products on which that the manufactures haven't done the basic testing, and which have so many schools of thought that no matter what I were to do, if the results didn't indicate success, I would be told that I did it wrong.
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Can't say that I blame you. The chance of inducing another bout of RTN/STN is not a trivial thing.
 
Anecdote: Our sps looked like crap when we didn't feed much and had .03 phos. We feed lots now, have some algae, and sps look good. Very young, very small system.

Quantitative tinged anecdote: The most successful sps grower I know has phos levels closer to Thales's than to the magic .03 Very large, very mature system.

Caveat -- newbie with very modest sps success thus far. Decided to start running dirtier when I noted that tanks posted with sps colors I liked were all more like .15 than .03.

Musing: one of the things that makes nanos tough is the limited options for herbivorous grazers...

Anyone know something small that eats Ulva?
 
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larcat said:
Anecdote: Our sps looked like crap when we didn't feed much and had .03 phos. We feed lots now, have some algae, and sps look good. Very young, very small system.

Quantitative tinged anecdote: The most successful sps grower I know has phos levels closer to Thales's than to the magic .03 Very large, very mature system.

Caveat -- newbie with very modest sps success thus far. Decided to start running dirtier when I noted that tanks posted with sps colors I liked were all more like .15 than .03.

Musing: one of the things that makes nanos tough is the limited options for herbivorous grazers...

Anyone know something small that eats Ulva?
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I love this post.

Small ulva eater - nothing comes to mind. I would pull it by hand - you become the herbivore, and maybe the smaller stuff you have will take care of the rest of it.
 
doctorwhoreefer said:
So your phosphate is ~2.02.

What salt do you use? (have you done the triton test? is that AWT? maybe I missed something)
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RC, IO and Tropic Marin. The test numbers I have posted are either from AWT or from the lab at work. The numbers are in the same range.

Finishing up an article about the Triton testing this week.
 
Thales said:
RC, IO and Tropic Marin. The test numbers I have posted are either from AWT or from the lab at work. The numbers are in the same range.

Finishing up an article about the Triton testing this week.
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Please post a link when it's up I'd be interested to see what it's about. I was thinking of doing one after my AWT that just came in last week.
 
Work tests from today:
NO3- = 67.6
Alk = 3.404 (9.5ish)
PO43- = 3.057
Also sent a ATS sample off.

Alk is down to a more reasonable range (down from 4). The masterflex I was using to feed the Ca reactor stopped working and then got a revamp, and this is where the alk has settled. Things look fine so I think I'll leave it there.

Phosphate is up (was around 2). Not sure if I am going to do anything about it.

Nitrate is a bit down (was 100). Not sure if I am going to do anything about it.

The algae is gone. All of it. Even the bryopsis seems gone. Seems we have figured that one out for this system - herbivores.

Everything else looks pretty good, no RTN or STN any more, corals that were fragged are encrusted and ready to send to Kevin (and Chris and Sanjay and Josh lol), so I am not sure if I am going to mess with anything anymore. Though that 3 phosphate is a scary number....

I'll try to post pics sometime soon, and that Triton test article should be available in a couple weeks.
 
Thales said:
Work tests from today:
NO3- = 67.6
Alk = 3.404 (9.5ish)
PO43- = 3.057
Also sent a ATS sample off.

Though that 3 phosphate is a scary number....

I'll try to post pics sometime soon, and that Triton test article should be available in a couple weeks.
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Yeah, that's really interesting. Looking forward to the article!
 
AWT results from the same day as the last results

Home Display - 1 of 12
01-21-2015 Ammonia (NH3-4) Good 0 0.000 - 0.050 mg/L
01-21-2015 Nitrite (NO2) Good 0.026 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L
01-21-2015 Phosphate (PO4) High 2.75 0.000 - 0.250 mg/L
01-21-2015 Nitrate (NO3) Good 9.9 0.000 - 25.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Silica (Sio2-3) High 1.2 0.000 - 0.500 mg/L
01-21-2015 Potassium (K) Low 317 350.000 - 450.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Ionic Calcium (Ca) Good 169 100.000 - 300.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Boron (B) NA NA 3.000 - 6.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Molybdenum (Mo) Good 0.3 0.000 - 0.300 mg/L
01-21-2015 Strontium (Sr) Good 7.4 5.000 - 12.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Magnesium (Mg) High 1430 1100.000 - 1400.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Iodine (I) Good 0.06 0.030 - 0.090 mg/L
01-21-2015 Copper (Cu) Good 0.07 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L
01-21-2015 Alkalinity (meq/L) Good 3.5 2.500 - 5.000 meq/L
01-21-2015 Total Calcium (Ca) Good 445 350.000 - 450.000 mg/L
01-21-2015 Iron (Fe) NA NA 0.000 - 0.010 mg/L

Remember to multiply Nitrate by 4.4 to get the units everyone uses.
 
Hi Thales
Awesome thread. I have not read the whole thread but I notice that there are few (or any) person that report that they have phosphate readings like you. But as we use to say at this side of the Atlantic (I live in Sweden) – You never walk alone.

My tank is not as good as yours but it works rather well and I can´t complain to the colours. I did suspect high phosphate reading but during the tank life (now on its sixth year) I never have measured my phosphate because I have similar thoughts as you have in your article.

However – some stony corals has not thrive in my tank so this autumn I start to experiment with trace elements. Just now – it works very well and I have no problems with corals that did not survive for more than a week before. Because it’s a risky business to do that I sent a test to Triton Lab just before Christmas. It was lucky that I did that because Iodine was 5 time higher than recommended and potassium was high to.

However – I suspected high phosphate levels – and it was. 2.35 mg/l. The nitrate – how knows :D ? I prefer to put my money on horse races instead of invest in a hobby nitrate test for saltwater.

My plans now is to slowly take down my phosphate and I will use an organic carbon source. My iron was 0 – and so it will be – therefore a GFO is out of question. My aluminium was a little too high – Therefore an aluminium based phosphate remover will not be used either. The reason for me to take it down is not that I´m worried for the P level but I want to see what’s happen with the growth of my corrals if the level drops below 1 and lower.

This video is not very good but it does not show the swamps of Louisiana but a rather healthy reef in my living room.
–
Sincerely Lasse

 
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Hey Lasse!

You tank looks great.
I worry about chasing numbers for chasing numbers sake - what is supposed to be the problem with iodine and potassium? How elevated were the levels?

Let me know what happens with the carbons source and phosphate - IME, it is not always an effective way to lower phosphate.
 
Lassef said:
Hi Thales
Awesome thread. I have not read the whole thread but I notice that there are few (or any) person that report that they have phosphate readings like you. But as we use to say at this side of the Atlantic (I live in Sweden) "“ You never walk alone.

My tank is not as good as yours but it works rather well and I can´t complain to the colours. I did suspect high phosphate reading but during the tank life (now on its sixth year) I never have measured my phosphate because I have similar thoughts as you have in your article.

However "“ some stony corals has not thrive in my tank so this autumn I start to experiment with trace elements. Just now "“ it works very well and I have no problems with corals that did not survive for more than a week before. Because it's a risky business to do that I sent a test to Triton Lab just before Christmas. It was lucky that I did that because Iodine was 5 time higher than recommended and potassium was high to.

However "“ I suspected high phosphate levels "“ and it was. 2.35 mg/l. The nitrate "“ how knows :D ? I prefer to put my money on horse races instead of invest in a hobby nitrate test for saltwater.

My plans now is to slowly take down my phosphate and I will use an organic carbon source. My iron was 0 "“ and so it will be "“ therefore a GFO is out of question. My aluminium was a little too high "“ Therefore an aluminium based phosphate remover will not be used either. The reason for me to take it down is not that I´m worried for the P level but I want to see what's happen with the growth of my corrals if the level drops below 1 and lower.

This video is not very good but it does not show the swamps of Louisiana but a rather healthy reef in my living room.
"“
Sincerely Lasse

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Nice tank, a little disappointed there was no Louisiana swamp, I am kind of partial to those.
 
@ Wazzel.

Thank you for your fine words about my tank "“ and the swamps of Louisiana was only an example of bad Swedish West Coast humour :)

@ Thales

Thank you for your comments about my tank

I understand what you mean when you are sceptical to organic carbon source and lowering of phosphorus levels. I think you can spell the problem with the word nitrate. What people forget, especially if you have a sand bed thicker than 1", is the fact that adding a carbon source also means that you in some cases create anoxic zones there you will have denitrification. Denitrification means that some of the nitrogen will not be available for biological growth (read microbial growth) "“ the mechanism responsible for the methods success. In my tanks with sand beds deeper than > 2" I always dose nitrate when I use organic carbon methods. I do not chase any numbers "“ just look at my corals and other animals. However "“ this time I will take phosphate concentrations for a couple of months "“ just to get real figures how it works and I'll come back to you with my opion. For the moment I add 3 ppm nitrate every day. Just now I also use GFO because I read some copper in my system. I going to take away the GFO as soon as possible. The last days I have lost some fishes and got some problems with my hermit crabs (but the corals "“ never looks better). After changing 25 % of the water last evening "“ the hermits begin to move again. However "“ I do not blame copper for this "“ I´m rather sure that my levels of Iodine and potassium are the real criminals here (300 micrograms/l and 645 mg/l of potassium) My sample was taken early in December but by mistake I did not get the results until last week and probably (because I at that time still dosing trace elements) the real values of this compounds was higher when my problems begin last week. However the phosphate levels was the same early December as last week (Hanna last week)

Sincerely Lasse
 
Well done! Unfortunately, but not unexpectedly, the article raises more questions than it is able to answer. Perhaps Triton will be more forthcoming in the future regarding its proprietary techniques.

I am not a scientist (and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I assume that remaining true to the skeptic in us requires that we not confidently conclude that the Triton test is able to accurately measure the concentration of those elements in your Table 1 which tested with a relative accuracy of less than say 5%? (That is soo tempting)
 
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