it is correct both ways. if you read the first post of this thread it tells you the difference between permanent and temporary/emergency qt.
either way is fine but i prefer cycle qt for many stability reasons.
Guide to setup a Quarantine Tank (QT).
- Thread starter Dr. Reef
- Start date
it is correct both ways. if you read the first post of this thread it tells you the difference between permanent and temporary/emergency qt.
either way is fine but i prefer cycle qt for many stability reasons.
Mike, first off thank you for all the knowledge you've supplied in this one thread alone!
Second, I hope your mom is doing okay.
Now my question: would there be a problem with using water from your DT to fill the QT after water changes? Or for Tom39, who had to set up his QT quickly, without being sure whether it had cycled, couldn't he just have used water from his DT, which is already cycled?
I would think that if you only used DT water to fill your QT, for water changes or initial fill, you wouldn't have to worry about cycling at all, would you? Then just add the newly-made SW back into your DT.
Second, I hope your mom is doing okay.
Now my question: would there be a problem with using water from your DT to fill the QT after water changes? Or for Tom39, who had to set up his QT quickly, without being sure whether it had cycled, couldn't he just have used water from his DT, which is already cycled?
I would think that if you only used DT water to fill your QT, for water changes or initial fill, you wouldn't have to worry about cycling at all, would you? Then just add the newly-made SW back into your DT.
Thank you for your kind words. I try to provide as much as I can for others to benefit. Been practicing qt procedures and medicine for 12 yrs now.
Mom is recovering thank you for asking.
Now to your question:
Using DT water will NOT give you instant cycle. Infact might make things worse in some situations.
Reasons: beneficial bacteria lives deep inside rocks and sand. Water does not carry beneficial bacteria so cycled water is only if it in same tank with rocks and sand. Take the water out and place it in a new setup with dry rock, and sand it will need cycle again this also apply to non cycled live rock setup as well.
So using DT water will not work for instant cycle needs.
How can it make things worse. In some situations where your DT might be infected with parasites so naturally you dont wanna transfer them to (might be) perfectly healthy new fish.
So its best to use new water matching new arrivals parameters. You can cycle tank which is much stable through treatments or you can use non cycled qt for which water changes are must daily and a dosing nightmare specifically when using sensitive medicines containing copper.
Either way, good question.
Good luck and do tell me how ur setup is and what do u plan on doing.
Mike,
Thanks so much! I didn't think about the fact that the bacteria live in the rocks and are not floating around in the water. I was thinking of it as cycled water, not cycled tank!
I'm still working on my setup, which will be a 100 gallon DT, with 50 gallon sump (only filled to 30 gallons, which will accommodate overflow from DT in the event of pump failure). The sump will work as follows: DT --> protein skimmer --> refugium --> baffles --> pump --> DT. I may put in some filter media in the last compartment, after the baffles, but haven't really thought about it yet. It's a custom setup, and I just finished installing the baffles yesterday, so I'm still a little bit out from startup.
The plumbing from the pump also includes a valve which can divert water flow from the sump to anywhere else. I would use this to fill the QT for emergencies, which is why I asked my question. Now that I understand it better, though, I will probably work it like this: QT tank fully cycled on its own for stocking new fish. Once I'm done with that and don't anticipate new fish for a while, I can break down the QT and use it for emergency only. In the event of an emergency, I can fill the QT from the sump and do partial water changes until the situation resolves.
The only problem with this plan is that I won't have a clean QT for spur-of-the-moment new fish purchases. I'll have to plan ahead and cycle the tank. It's okay, though, I don't really do anything spur-of-the-moment anyway.
Thanks for all your advice!
Thanks so much! I didn't think about the fact that the bacteria live in the rocks and are not floating around in the water. I was thinking of it as cycled water, not cycled tank!
I'm still working on my setup, which will be a 100 gallon DT, with 50 gallon sump (only filled to 30 gallons, which will accommodate overflow from DT in the event of pump failure). The sump will work as follows: DT --> protein skimmer --> refugium --> baffles --> pump --> DT. I may put in some filter media in the last compartment, after the baffles, but haven't really thought about it yet. It's a custom setup, and I just finished installing the baffles yesterday, so I'm still a little bit out from startup.
The plumbing from the pump also includes a valve which can divert water flow from the sump to anywhere else. I would use this to fill the QT for emergencies, which is why I asked my question. Now that I understand it better, though, I will probably work it like this: QT tank fully cycled on its own for stocking new fish. Once I'm done with that and don't anticipate new fish for a while, I can break down the QT and use it for emergency only. In the event of an emergency, I can fill the QT from the sump and do partial water changes until the situation resolves.
The only problem with this plan is that I won't have a clean QT for spur-of-the-moment new fish purchases. I'll have to plan ahead and cycle the tank. It's okay, though, I don't really do anything spur-of-the-moment anyway.
Thanks for all your advice!
Jetersyanks
New member
Thank's a lot helped me more then you know lost a lot of fish im glad I figured out this QT tank thing
i hope qt and fish are doing good? did u lose any fish recently?
i am glad that we have movement now, great news. ammonia is 0 and nitrites 5. no problem. give it a few days and nitrites will go down. once nitrites are down to 0 then do a 50% water change and ur qt is ready for 1st fish. (although nitrites are not dangerous to fish at these low levels but i would wait them out).
Good luck.
Jetersyanks
New member
no so far so good .. I put the tang in about 4 days ago he had some white spots on his fins but as of yesterday nothing I think maybe just stress from a new tank but he's fine now ...
They died :sad2: Not sure what happened.
Sg - 1.024
Temp - 78.8
Ph - between 8.2 to 8.3 (not sure exactly what shade of purple)
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 5.0 ppm
Any thoughts?
ammonia? did you drip acclimate? if yes how long?
Yes I dripped for over an hour, i tried to follow the suppliers recomendations as closely as possible. Prior to starting drip though, I floated to get the bag temp down, as temp was @ 84* upon arrival. I tested ph, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia 2x on friday (the day they arrived) 4x on sat and sun and monday morning. The higest the ammonia got was 0.25 on Saturday. By sun it was dissipated (0ppm)and nitrate was 5ppm. Monday morning and evening 0ppm ammonia and 5ppm nitrate.
Temp 78.8, SG 1.024, Ph 8.3 and nitrite 0ppm stayed constant
Thanks for the help,
Tom G
Temp 78.8, SG 1.024, Ph 8.3 and nitrite 0ppm stayed constant
Thanks for the help,
Tom G
Tom there are 2 things that stand out.
1. no matter what you have to do after opening the bag no more than 30 min for drip. 30-45 min after opening bag water chemistry starts to change and become toxic.
"the fish has been in transit in a closed container without biological filtration for a substantial period of time. In this situation, 2 things happen. 1) Ammonia from fish waste builds up, and 2) CO2 from the fish breathing and inability to exchange gases with the surrounding air builds up. However, the increased CO2 drops the pH, protonating the ammonia molecules to the less toxic ammonium ions. So, when you get the fish and start drip acclimating it, the water can equilibrate with the air and your quarantine water raises the pH of the water the fish came in, resulting in deprotonating of ammonium to form the now more toxic ammonia again."
2. Ammonia in any amounts is dangerous, this could be something that can cause damage to internal organs in a fish which may take a few hours to few days to kill a fish depending on how bad the organs are damaged.
Those 2 things stand out to me. There is a 3rd possibility of having a sick fish to begin with or was already on its way to death before u purchased it.
I hope you will have better luck next round.
Good Luck
1. no matter what you have to do after opening the bag no more than 30 min for drip. 30-45 min after opening bag water chemistry starts to change and become toxic.
"the fish has been in transit in a closed container without biological filtration for a substantial period of time. In this situation, 2 things happen. 1) Ammonia from fish waste builds up, and 2) CO2 from the fish breathing and inability to exchange gases with the surrounding air builds up. However, the increased CO2 drops the pH, protonating the ammonia molecules to the less toxic ammonium ions. So, when you get the fish and start drip acclimating it, the water can equilibrate with the air and your quarantine water raises the pH of the water the fish came in, resulting in deprotonating of ammonium to form the now more toxic ammonia again."
2. Ammonia in any amounts is dangerous, this could be something that can cause damage to internal organs in a fish which may take a few hours to few days to kill a fish depending on how bad the organs are damaged.
Those 2 things stand out to me. There is a 3rd possibility of having a sick fish to begin with or was already on its way to death before u purchased it.
I hope you will have better luck next round.
Good Luck
After doing some reasearch, I have to agree 100% with 30min or less drip. Kind of the same theory as why we flush our toilet after we are done. Unfortunately the supplier i used provides strict instruction for acclamation of their product if you want to receive the 14day guarantee. I was trying to do what was right by them and the fish paid the price. I have to admit that, having a credit of $20 for a fish is not worth the life of the fish.
Thanks for the help,
Tom G
Thanks for the help,
Tom G
Tom
i am sorry for the loss, i had a feeling about drip acclimation. i have no idea why an online vendor would ask to drip for longer time right out of bag.
Now there is a way which i adopt for very sensitive critters to drip acclimate that last 1 hour or more. For which what i usually do is i take almost 99% of the transport water our and discard it leaving just enough for critter to be submerged. then drip for a little while till you double the water you started with then discard most of the water again. keep doing that for as long as you want. 1-2 hrs, its much safer than just opening a bag and drip acclimating if longer than 30 min.
i am sorry for the loss, i had a feeling about drip acclimation. i have no idea why an online vendor would ask to drip for longer time right out of bag.
Now there is a way which i adopt for very sensitive critters to drip acclimate that last 1 hour or more. For which what i usually do is i take almost 99% of the transport water our and discard it leaving just enough for critter to be submerged. then drip for a little while till you double the water you started with then discard most of the water again. keep doing that for as long as you want. 1-2 hrs, its much safer than just opening a bag and drip acclimating if longer than 30 min.
I thought that I should post this comment to make others aware of the misinformation being provided by so vendors. I don't know why they tell you to do it this way but they do.
The vendor states in their acclimation video that acclimation time is a total of 2.5hrs.
1st hr is slow drip from 1/4" line
2nd hr is fast drip from 1/4" line
Last 1/2hr is full flow from 1/4" line
Not sure how or why that process makes sense to them but it's important enough for them to make a video of the procedure.
Hope it helps and Bnumair thank you again for your insight,
Tom G
The vendor states in their acclimation video that acclimation time is a total of 2.5hrs.
1st hr is slow drip from 1/4" line
2nd hr is fast drip from 1/4" line
Last 1/2hr is full flow from 1/4" line
Not sure how or why that process makes sense to them but it's important enough for them to make a video of the procedure.
Hope it helps and Bnumair thank you again for your insight,
Tom G
hogfanreefer
Active member
bnumair, can you treat with erythromycin in QT while treating with copper? I have a dwarf angel in QT in week two of cupramine with a cloudy and slightly swollen eye. He is still eating well and is acting normal.
Sorry to hear about your fish getting sick. It often happens that once infected with one disease, they become prone to secondary infections. I would never recommend any two medications together especially anything with copper. It poses a risk of reducing the safe form of copper found in Cupramine(Cu2+) to a toxic form(Cu 1+). it is best to finish out the treatment, remove the copper, then begin treating the secondary infection.
Running a higher temp will help fasten the cycle on ich and kill is faster. once rid of ich, remove copper then treat with antibiotic.
Running a higher temp will help fasten the cycle on ich and kill is faster. once rid of ich, remove copper then treat with antibiotic.
