Has Anyone Tried a "Rubble Bottom?"

[Paul B]

Horseshoe crabs should not be put in a reef. They are not tropical animals and they always live in mud. I can collect them locally here in NY by the hundreds any size from 1/4" to a foot. They live on mud and rarely venture onto rubble although there is plenty of rubble here. They are also temperate animals and will not live long at tropical temperatures. They should live a few monthes but at 80 degrees I doubt they will last much longer. I have collected them many times. Let me know if anyone had one for a long time.
Take care.
Paul

 

[sgolden]

thanx for the ideas guys.......i think i'll be building a pvc plenum of "rails"to put under my sandbed...with holes drilled on the bottom to keep all detritus from settling...and have lotsa holes (some on angles)aimed up at the sandbed.....so if the sand settles in areas and makes dead zones i can just adjust the flow till the entire sandbed is percolating...then back it off......do you think anything would still live in the sand???

 

[bigreddog]

A buddy of mine has a 210g with a rubble bottom. He put a thin layer of aragonite sand, about a half inch, underneath a nice layer of 1-2" pieces of marshall and tonga rubble. It gives the effect he was looking for and adds valuable biofiltration. It's been nearly a year since he set it up and never a problem.

 

[algaeguy]

bigreddog:

Any chance of getting a pic of your buddy's tank?

Sounds like something worth seeing!

Thanks!

Scott

 

[jimbo045]

I seem to be doing the rara. Lots of live rock and only a Protein Skimmer, no wet/dry

 

[ghotiFL]

OT: Horseshoe crabs not tropical? Then the ones here must be mutated. I see em all the time here in Florida. On the gulf coast.. and our water temps range from 90 in summer to 65 in winter.

 

[Paul B]

ghotiFL, If you see horseshoe crabs in Florida then I stand corrected. They have to be the same species becfause there is only three species of them and only one in North America.
It is amazing that an animal (it's not really a crab) can live here in NY under the ice and also live in Florida. I still don't think they will do well in a reef though. But I could be wrong again. My wife tells me I am wrong all the time.
bigreddog, I like the picture of the male blue devil in your avitar. That is what they look like when they are in breeding condition. I used to breed them all the time many years ago.
Take care Paul

 

[Tunguska]

I have a "rubble zone" substrate, but it isn't just rubble. I have everything from oolitic aragonite and "special grade" sizes to CC, shells, sand dollar pieces, and LR chunks. The amount of microscopic life this mix supports is quite amazing.

I have at least 2 species of snail breeding successfully in my tank (one looks like turbo snails, but I'll wait till they grow more before trying to ID, the other looks like a slug with a hard shell on top). I also have tunicates and sponges spreading like crazy. Mysis shrimp have set up breeding stations in some large shells I have in there. I also have some kind of stationary snail that casts a "net" for either bacteria or plankton, and a non-photosynthetic clam that came with one of my rocks that is still alive after one year this month.

I think the sandbed/rubble zone creates a zone where natural phyto production can occur, as well as a place where the snail larvae can survive. I don't feed phyto. I also have 0/0/0 amonia/nitrite/nitrate. I attribute this to feeding almost nothing (I'm not giving the sandbed ALL the credit ).

I think rubble zones are something to look at, and not just as BB replacements. Just my opinion based on 1 year of SW.

 

[Paul B]

Tunguska, I have also raised over 100 of these lettuce slugs in my reef but I doubt the substrate has anything to do with it, but it may.
Paul
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/baldassano2004/SolarPoweredSlug.htm

 

[lillibirdy]

Oh my Gosh Paul, thats a lot of slugs. So what ever happened to them? Are they still in there and reproducing? You shoulda sold some babies to LFS or local reefers. I am fascinated by these little buggers, but am afraid of the toxicity factor. Hmmm idea for another poll...

 

[algaeguy]

Tunguska:

I'm fascinated by your "mixed grain" sand/rubble zone. You mention what I feel is one of the biggest benefits of this type of setup- the biodiveristy and and potential for alternative food sources being developed within the system itself...sort of an in-tank refugium.

Sandbeds are still a controversial topic, but it's very nice to hear success stories from hobbyists using a variety of approaches.

Thanks again for your input!

Scott

 

[Paul B]

Lillibirdi, that was last year, the slugs lived about 18 monthes which is a lot longer then they are supposed to live. I did sell most of them to a researcher in Conn. Many more I traded to a LFS. I used them like credit cards. I don't think there are any more of them in my reef. They reproduced a few times then ran out of steam.
Paul

 

[Tunguska]

algaeguy:

Yes, it is basically an in-tank reffugium. Initially, I added the larger rubble in "pod piles" in anticipation of adding a mandarin -- I got a scooter blenny about a month ago. It is my only fish. Eventually, I filled up the hidden spots behind rocks with all the rubble I added, so I just started dropping it where ever. This led to my mixed grain rubble DSB.

 

[Tunguska]

Paul:

Congrats on your breeding success! I tried a lettuce slug once, but I saw my crabs kill it. I always thought they were supposed to be poisonous? Anyways, I think the "slugs" I have are really snails with slug shaped bodies and semi-ovoid shells. They are mostly light green, with parts that fade almost to white. One of them is jet black. I've never seen them before, and I don't have a camera for pictures, so I still dont know what they are.

 

[just dave]

While not exactly what you are going for I have my tanks viewable bottom area covered with rock and where it meets the glass it is rubble. Works great so far.

 

[algaeguy]

Actually, Dave- it is very similar...

How 'bout some pics?

Scott

 

[just dave]

 

[lillibirdy]

Dang that's a purty tank! I am still trying to figure out how you guys can get all the different corals so close without them trying to sting each other...

 

[algaeguy]

Really nice stuff...That's a true "rubble bottom" over a "BB" . I like the idea...Very unique.

Thanks for the pics!

Scott

 

[jda]

Saw this thread kinda late, but I use a rubble bottom on my FOWLR. About 50% Carib Sea Sea Floor and about 50% hammered-up live rock. I started this because I did not want the fish to move all the substrate around. The hunks are from M&M size all the way up to Jawbreaker/Golf-Ball size.

It gets a nice layer of coralline on it and looks pretty good. It also houses a LOT of mini stars, worms and pods. I don't vacuum it and my NO3 is about 1 and PO4 about 0.

Sure some food ends up in there, but the worms and fauna take care of it. You would be suprised how the fish can "blow" and all the food comes back up for them to eat. Even the eels can get to it.

The triggers and puffers like to find the occasional worm or star out in the open as a real treat. At night, there are pods like crazy all over the place.