Has Anyone Tried a "Rubble Bottom?"
- Thread starter algaeguy
- Start date
danieljames
New member
The anaerobic zone within our rock is definately an area for denitrification. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could offer something about the optimal depth that this occurs. I would think there would be variables, ie: porosity, etc, but if there is a measurable area that could be looked at in a generalized way with different types of rock/rubble (like pacific vs atlantic), you could choose your rubble accordingly. I like the idea. Blasting a rubble bottom with a powerhead a couple of times a week to loosen detritus would not be a big deal to me. Not a difficult thing to do imo.
I doubt that the Rubble Bottom can out-perform a DSB, BUT, with some consideration of the "rubble" selection, it might come a lot closer than many people would think.
No amount of "depth" is going to affect denitrification significantly, because the amount of water around the rock will diffuse oxygen to levels that cannot support denitrification in the "interstital water". Interstital water is just the water between the rocks.
HOWEVER, If the rock selected, has a lot of surface area, like danieljames stated, that is a very big PLUS ! Also, if rock that is very porous, is selected, that will also increase the denitrification capability TREMENDOUSLY.
A REALLY NICE FEATURE, here, is that Hydrogen Sulfide production, and heavy metals "sinking" would be NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to occur ! ! ! ! !
Watta ya tinks of dem apples, heh ? ?
> Barry
crazzyreefer
New member
if you want a water sample let me know, I have had this system up for years now without a probem, for rubble I use frags of zoos and mushrooms and slice the rocks with a tile saw to make them flat bottom, and just lined the glass with the frags., I run this system compleatly filterless, and do a 10% water change every month or 2 months.
danieljames
New member
What kind of flow crazzyreefer?
You can use smaller holes as well, say (4) 1/8" holes. In either case, drill the holes at an angle, like 30 deg. "down". You will hardly notice any spray. You can even locate the top of the hole at your water level, and have no visible "spray" at all. About 3/16" of the water will drain by the time siphon is broken, but this is often not a problem.
> Barry
Hey Scott, and all you other "Rubble bottom" peoples, check this out ! ! ! !
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=760064
They are asking for votes for Thread Of The Month ! ! !
"Rubble Bottom" is on the list. Let's get going here with some votes, and kiss some babies if need be!
Congratulations Scott ! > Barry
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=760064
They are asking for votes for Thread Of The Month ! ! !
"Rubble Bottom" is on the list. Let's get going here with some votes, and kiss some babies if need be!
Congratulations Scott ! > Barry
lillibirdy
New member
Very cooooooool. I voted. At first it looked like we were way behind, then I realized there where only 7 votes so far.....lol, sooo actually it is anybodys race...GO VOTE!
This is very cool validation! The fact that we are opening up such new and different new schools of thought, AND it hasn't turned negative! I am proud of us!
This is very cool validation! The fact that we are opening up such new and different new schools of thought, AND it hasn't turned negative! I am proud of us!
algaeguy
Over-The-Top- Reef Geek
Hi gang!
I'm thrilled that we're all keeping this thread going! Barry, lillibirdy, and all- thanks so much for sharing here and helping to inspire others!
It's really proven to be an interestig thread to participate in! We've covered a lot of ground and I hope we'll continue to do so. As Barry has mentioned, it's so cool that everyone is discussing and sharing their experieinces and providing feedback in a civilized, friendly manner.
Maybe this thread has not been ground-breaking, but if nothing else, it has provided a great forum for us to share some cool ideas with fellow reefers. No fights, no flaming-just sharing of good solid information on the hobby we're all nuts over! And THAT'S what Reef Central is all about! Kudos to ALL!
I hope that everyone here continues to post and discuss their experiences and concepts with "Rubble Bottoms" and alternative substrate methodologies. The "state of the art" of our hobby is really for all of us to develop and share- so let's keep it up! Inspiration is a big part of what we're doing here. Hopefully, lots of other hobbyists can try this idea and give us their feedback-good and bad!
I'm as guilty as anyone here in one regard- I've got to get some decent pics up! I'd love to see everyone else's systems out there, so if you have some- don't be shy!
Thanks again to everyone here for sharing! I SWEAR I'm breaking out the camera this weekend!
Scott
I'm thrilled that we're all keeping this thread going! Barry, lillibirdy, and all- thanks so much for sharing here and helping to inspire others!
It's really proven to be an interestig thread to participate in! We've covered a lot of ground and I hope we'll continue to do so. As Barry has mentioned, it's so cool that everyone is discussing and sharing their experieinces and providing feedback in a civilized, friendly manner.
Maybe this thread has not been ground-breaking, but if nothing else, it has provided a great forum for us to share some cool ideas with fellow reefers. No fights, no flaming-just sharing of good solid information on the hobby we're all nuts over! And THAT'S what Reef Central is all about! Kudos to ALL!
I hope that everyone here continues to post and discuss their experiences and concepts with "Rubble Bottoms" and alternative substrate methodologies. The "state of the art" of our hobby is really for all of us to develop and share- so let's keep it up! Inspiration is a big part of what we're doing here. Hopefully, lots of other hobbyists can try this idea and give us their feedback-good and bad!
I'm as guilty as anyone here in one regard- I've got to get some decent pics up! I'd love to see everyone else's systems out there, so if you have some- don't be shy!
Thanks again to everyone here for sharing! I SWEAR I'm breaking out the camera this weekend!
Scott
Scott, I didn't get the pictures of the Aquarium of the Pacific's rubble bottom tank as planned. I worked late and could only drop my kids off for "Teen night" they wouldn't let me run in and take some pictures. My daughter tried to take a few, but they came out to dark. I'll be back in a week or two to try again.
I picked up my tank last weekend (see our forum), and after I get my act together, will be going with a rubble bottom. I've always liked the idea of "pod piles" and to think of having an entire bottom for places to hide......well, I can't wait!
I picked up my tank last weekend (see our forum), and after I get my act together, will be going with a rubble bottom. I've always liked the idea of "pod piles" and to think of having an entire bottom for places to hide......well, I can't wait!
algaeguy
Over-The-Top- Reef Geek
SWEET!
What kind/size of rubble do you plan on using? The Tonga Branch stuff, or slab, or...?
Are you going to have a rockscape along with the rubble? I'm curious to see what you'll come up with! I still have this strange fascination with seagrasses, too, and was thinking about a rubble bottom combined with areas of sand to plant seagrasses...On the other hand, the entire tank as a rubble zone is really a fascinating biotope!
Are you going to seed the rubble with pods and leave the tank fishless for some time before you get things really going? Can you imagine the biodiversity of a rubble bottom system if the reefer could handle waiting a few months before adding fishes? How cool would THAT be?
See ya!
Scott
What kind/size of rubble do you plan on using? The Tonga Branch stuff, or slab, or...?
Are you going to have a rockscape along with the rubble? I'm curious to see what you'll come up with! I still have this strange fascination with seagrasses, too, and was thinking about a rubble bottom combined with areas of sand to plant seagrasses...On the other hand, the entire tank as a rubble zone is really a fascinating biotope!
Are you going to seed the rubble with pods and leave the tank fishless for some time before you get things really going? Can you imagine the biodiversity of a rubble bottom system if the reefer could handle waiting a few months before adding fishes? How cool would THAT be?
See ya!
Scott
I'm planning on using small branch stuff along with some smaller irregular rocks for most of the bottom, will see what I like. For the rockscape, I'm planning on doing some pillars and the reef ceramics for the back wall. I just need to find the right rocks for the pillars.
My original plan was to just have the rock for a few months, without fish. That plan has changed as I also took all the livestock that was in the tank when I picked it up. I hope the rubble bottom along with the fuge will keep the pod population up.
My original plan was to just have the rock for a few months, without fish. That plan has changed as I also took all the livestock that was in the tank when I picked it up. I hope the rubble bottom along with the fuge will keep the pod population up.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6595023#post6595023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Hey Scott, and all you other "Rubble bottom" peoples, check this out ! ! ! !
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=760064
They are asking for votes for Thread Of The Month ! ! !
"Rubble Bottom" is on the list. Let's get going here with some votes, and kiss some babies if need be!
Congratulations Scott ! > Barry
This thread got my vote. Best thread going on here in a long time.
When you step back think about all that has been said on this thread,.....for this point in time in this hobby, the thoughts and ideas are out in left field...................but then again, not really.
Like many other hobbies, technology has driven the direction of
"How To". Yet Paul B has been doing it "the old fashion" way for 30 years with a few "tweaks" here and there.........Lillibirdy and some others here are like the contemporary Paul B doing the same thing basically 30 years later with some "tweak" and validating today what most consider a "dinosour" methodology and doing it very cost effectively but most importantly.......successfully. When I started in saltwater 4 years ago, I had the same thinking as Paul B and Lillibirdy for doing a simple tank but thought "I" must be wrong in my thinking because on reading RC and other boards around, NOBODY was doing it this way........... until Algaeguy brought up the subject. Algaeguy...........THANK YOU for bringing this to lite. I hope others(from newbies to expereinced reefers) that are on RC or any other message board catch this thread. It brings an entirely new perspective on "HOW TO" to this hobby.
Anyway........I just got my new equipment for my tank. Now I just have to paint the wall behind the tank, and set it up. After following this thread, I can't wait 'cause it will be a rubble bottom.
I'm looking forward to more replies from others on this thread and hope it doesn't stop
