HCBTA just died - MANY QUESTIONS!!

[reefallen]

My HGBTA just died. I only had it for a week. I am really bummed. Has anyone ever heard of one dying because of HIGH Phosphate levels?? That's the only parameter that is "off" in my tank. Everything else checks out perfectly. The A. perideraion clowns are LOST!! But, I don't want to reintroduce another anenome if I don't have the "problem" fixed". I don't use R/O water.... yeah, yeah, I know...

I do have pictures, but I am not bright enough to figure out how to post them... I'm working on it. Any help would be MUCH appreciated!!

Thanks!

 

[TOURKID]

www.photobucket.com

 

[Chad Vossen]

RO water could realy help you. tap water usualy has stuff that reduces the health of your inverts and maybe even fish. plus it usualy contains nutrients you dont want in your tank.

 

[reefallen]

All of my fish, invertebrates and corals are healthy and having no problems. I haven't had any problems in the tank until the addition last week of the anemone and the anemone fish. The fish are fine, but the nem is dead. There is also a foxface rabbitfish and a sailfin tang in the tank as well as peppermint shrimp, other varieties of shrimp, an electric blue crab and about 10 -12 varieties of soft corals.

I know that R/O is ideal, but I also know that plenty of people "get by" with soft corals without it. I'm planning on getting a unit down the line.

Would not have R/O water ALONE KILL a nem??? Does EVERYONE here use R/O water??

 

[Flighty]

It is really hard to say what was the cause of death for an anemone. They can look fairly healthy and be nearly dead at the store and their demise will have nothing to do with your tank parameters. Some bad signs to look for are white or translucent tentecles, shorter than normal tenticles, open mouths and white stomach tissue visible at the mouth, and a torn or damaged foot.

 

[dantodd]

Phosphates can be pretty bad on anemones. Ph is also known to be a problem. Usually your macro will lock up quite a bit of phosphate along with nitrates but often not enough and it isn't unusual for the phosphates to build up. Use phosban or another phosphate sponge to get rid of it. Be careful to read the directions carefully, some will release the phosphates after a short period and can crash a tank. Also, keeping up on regular water changes will help.

If you want to try again I would recommend having the phosphates under control for 2 or 3 months and then use a very slow acclimation. You can get a decent RO/DI unit off of eBay for $140 and it is worth it.

In the mean time test your fresh mixed saltwater and see if that is where the phosphates are coming from.

You also didn't mention your tank age, young tanks have less stable water so most don't recommend anemones in tanks less than 6mo. old. You also didn't mention your lights but you should acclimate an anemone to the new lights if you have substantially more light than the LFS has them under. This almost certainly had nothing to do with your loss but is good to know for the next anemone.

 

[reefallen]

I have PC's on my tank. I didn't think I had a lighting problem with the nem since it was staying footed in the sand (until it got really sick) and not trying to crawl to a higher place for more light. My tank is over 6 months old, so I don't think it was that. I have copapods, bristleworms, spaghetti worms, etc. all living very happily.

Our city water is supposedly known for its high levels of phosphate (or so I'm told). I'm going to look into getting a phosphate sponge or phosban. Which is better? Also into getting a RO/DI unit.

Do you think the A. perideraion pair will hold off for a few months?? Thye are "massaging" the water like an anemone is there. I feel so badly for them...

 

[dantodd]

Your clowns will be fine without an anemone, even long term.

I highly doubt that the lights had anything to do with killing the anemone, that would take much longer than a week.

I'm guessing that you got a dying specimen to begin with. It is highly unusual that a BTA would plant his foot in the sand. I'm guessing it was the high phosphates and possibly too short of an acclimation process.

How many watts of PC do you have over the 75? Which bulbs? All 10000K bright white or some white and some actinic blue?

 

[reefallen]

Sorry for the confusion, my fingers got the best of me when I was originally posting. I (had) a Heteractis magnifica anemone. I was able to send "finding nemo" aka Karen pictures of it (via email) from purchase to death. She said it was bleached out and probably beyond saving.

I have PC actinic's 10,000. There are 4 bulbs in total.

I also went out today and got a PhosBan Reactor and am going to fill it with the Phosphate Sponge!! Got that tip from another fellow reefer! Great idea!! It's even better than just using the solution!

I think (eventually) I will probably buy a RO/DI unit. Probably sooner than later... How long do you think it will take for the unit to clear my tank? Actually, I guess I can just find out by checking my levels!! DUH! I looked back at my notes and as recently as 4/29/06, my phosphate level was only .5!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Now I'm irritated!!!! I JUST found out that my husband did a water change 6.7% and added salt 2 DAYS after the clowns and nem got here!!!! Then, he added Ph buffer to increase the density!! Then, the next day, he added MORE salt because the density didn't increase that much from the day before. Hmmmmm I wonder if any of THESE things ticked off the nem??!!! We are obviously arguing about this!! He, of course, says no, but had failed to mention any of these things to me....

What do you think?

 

[dantodd]

Last thing I'd want to do is get in the middle of that arguement. But. I do all the maintenance here. It's just a lot easier to know what's happening if one person does it. Sounds like it might be best if it was you

Never add water until it's at the right SG and Ph.

BTW: adding buffering should not change it specific density. I always weigh my salt and add the same amount to the water every time. It is much more accurate than cupfuls.

Be sure to read up on phosphate absorbers. Phosban is supposed to be really good. I ran one of the aluminum based absorbers but it isn't appropriate for a reactor because it has to be pulled after a couple days or it will leech poison into the tank.

I got This RO/DI unit. I got the tank because I don't use an ATO and I need to maintain 3 tanks. The only strange thing is how the quick-disconnects they send work. I have never used them before so I didn't know how to remove the tubes once they were connected. If you have the same prob. let me know and I can talk you through it.

I'd probably stick with a BTA rather than a magnifica with the lights and this being your first shot at anemone keeping.

 

[clord]

How old is your tank?

Your supposed to wait 6 months to a year for it to have a good chance to live. That way your tank will be ready and you will have more knowledge

 

[reefallen]

Yeah. I was thinking of getting a BTA or RBTA (I know, just a variation) the next time. My only concern was my corals. After talking with Karen, I felt much better. But, with my luck.... I won't even finish that!!!

Yes. My DH and I have a HUGE problem. I do all the research and work and he goes and screws everythingk up and then yells at me. Gotta love it!!

My "friend" said that the Phosphate Sponge material works well inside the PhosoBan. He's been into Reefs a long time. He works at a LFS FT as well. He's always given me good advice and I DIDN"T buy the HGLTA from him... I'll read up more and ask him more questions tomorrow. It's not like I can call either company!! I'm sure they won't have any statistics or knowledge about it since they are competing companies. LOL.

Wish me luck! I'm just dying to get another anemone... It's going to be hard to wait. But, I will. Because there's NO WAY I can bear losing another one.

 

[TOURKID]

i cant afford an r/o di maker quite yet, so i buy 5 gal. at my lfs once a week.. cost me about 4 bucks. and i started off with tap water for the first 4 1/2 months im about to the point i probley have most of the tap h20 exchanged with r/o d/i and I noticed a huge difference with my tank. much healthier in almost all aspects.

My tank is 6 months old.. and i DEF. bought my anemone to early. shes a real fighter. a few more days and she'll finally have 250watts of mh. shes been thru alot of my newbie mistakes. Id wait at least a yr b4 getting one now that i know better. It really is like going to the school of hard knocks the first year. I cant believe all the things i did wrong at first (and things im still learning and changeing!)

 

[dantodd]

I am not a phosphate expert but from what I understand is there are 2 types of phosphate "sponges" available. One is aluminum based and the other is iron based. The aluminum based is white and the iron based is, well, rust colored. Supposedly the rust colored ones are much better and can be used in a reactor. Whatever you end up getting please be sure to read the directions as they will say if it needs to be pulled after a short period of time.

Kent marine's "phosphate sponge" (it is an aluminum based "white" product) has the following warning on their website :

Make sure water flows through the material and not just around it. Leave for 8 hours to 2 days maximum (as with any phosphate adsorber, phosphates can be re-released into the system if initial charge is left in the system continuously. If you want to leave in the system to keep phosphates low or to remove silicates, replace initial charge with brand new, and change on a regular basis.)

ROWAphos, which is probably the BEST phosphate remover on the market (and one of the iron-based solutions) has the following on their website:

With ROWAphos, release of potentially toxic substances like aluminium will NOT occur. When exhausted, the product does NOT release phosphate back into the water.

Phos-ban is the standard by which the others are measured and is considered almost as good as ROWAphos by most. It is also an iron-based product and won't leech phosphates over time either.

 

[reefallen]

Dan,

THANKS!!

But, now I have MORE questions!! I can only do this in pieces parts until I get my daughter to bed.

I bought the PhosBan Reactor 150. I, however, did not get the accompanying "PhosBan" powder. I do have the Kent Marine (white) granular Phosphate Sponge that you refered to! Aluminum, not iron. I guess I'll be making a return trip to the store tomorrow... and not be able to fully set up the PhosBan Reactor tonight! But, better to know now than after!!

You know, you always think you speak/know reputable people and somehow... IDK.

I still feel uncomfortable because I feel like I was sold 2 live items from a reputable dealer who has had a SW business for many years and both items I got from this business "looked" to be in good condition, but once I got them home, they died within days. When I attempted to discuss it, not much happened. This last time they asked for a water sample. I gladly brought it in and like I said, the only thing off was phosphates. Go figure.

I'm glad you spoke up about the different types of phosphate sponges. I'm sure I might have caught it, but who knows...

Thanks again, Dan

 

[finding nemo]

Posting the pictures Mary sent me of her anemone that died.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/karenssaltwater/mary3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/karenssaltwater/mary1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/karenssaltwater/mary2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

 

[Flighty]

HGLTA, HCBTA, HGBTA, HMLTA are all not commonly used abbreviations
BTA=bubble tip anemone
RBTA= rose BTA
LTA= long tentacle anemone

A heteractis magnifica is usually just referred to as a magnifica, a mag for short, or a ritteri.

That being cleared up, I'm not sure that what you had was a magnifica. From the body shape and coloration it think it might have been a Heteractis malu. Magnificas in trouble typically flatten out and get mushy rather than retaining any sort of long shape like yours. The cream on top and red on the bottom is typical of a malu, not a magnifica.

regardless, you need to find the source of the phosphates and water problems. If you are putting phosphates into the tank and using a phosphate remover, odds are you are also putting other toxic stuff into the tank that is not being removed. Also, for anemones, variation of parameters can be more of a problem than high phosphate levels.

The best advice I can give you is to strongly urge that you look for a local reef club rather than a store for advice. Stores (even good ones) are notorious for giving simple fixes which involve buying equipment from them, but don't address the real issues.

Take your time and don't rush into buying livestock and you will have a much more rewarding hobby.

Best of luck
Cindy

 

[phender]

Sorry but it looks like your anemone was neither a BTA nor a H. magnifica, it was a M. doorensis (Long tentacled anemone). They like to bury their foot in the sand and tend to need more light than BTAs.
In most cases, anemones that die within a week in people's tanks were either near death when they were purchased, poorly acclimated or both.

 

[Flighty]

Phender, you think doorensis, not malu? I need to brush up on my other-than-magnifica-or-bta IDs

 

[dantodd]

The tentacles in the first pic do have a somewhat LTA but I don't see any verrucae, do LTA lose their verrucae when ill?