(HD720p)S.MAC 600g SPS System/Full MH + Solaris/Surge/Prop/Fuge/Pond Chiller

[REEF SMAC]

I'm convinced, I'm adding a surge tank. Thank you for the inspiration.

Thanks for checking it out sunlitreef.
As long as your overflow will handle the rush of water, it is really great water movement.

Steve, tell us more about your secret blend of salt mix's please?

Ha! Not really a secret blend just use different ones all the time. Each time I do a water change I mix up 60 gallons. I've used over the years, Instant Ocean, Reef Crystals, Seachem Reef, Tropic Marin Pro, Tropic Marin Reef, H2 Ocean, Red Sea Coral Pro, Marine Environment, Bio Life, Neo Marine, Tunze Reef, and I've used a lot of NSW, back when I could bring it home from work.
Those are just the ones I can think of.
I really haven't noticed to much of a difference between any of them, but doing a 10% WC doesn't really change much parameter wise anyway.
I just pretty much use a different one each time I do a WC.

Congrats Smack-well deserved TOTM! Your stand and canopy are beautiful as well- you've done a great job top to bottom on your system! Inspirational for sure-Nice work.

Thank you veloboy. The cabinet was quite a project in itself.

 

[Haddock]

I've had several people ask about how my DIY air separator works, so here is my attemp to explain it.

My CSD tank is in the room upstairs above my DT, making it about 8' above my DT. When I first connected it strait into my DT, it would push very large bubbles into my DT at the beginning of each surge. The falling water from my surge tank would basically force all the air out of the empty pipe and push it directly into my DT. Having your CSD tank 8' up gives you a really good blast of water into your DT, but it also has more air in the pipe to empty out on the way down. The large bubbles at the beginning of the surge would cause a lot of water to splash out above where the CSD water enters my tank. Anyone with familiar with a CSD probably knows this well.

I decided to try an air separator to take out these large bubbles and it worked even better than I had hoped. I no longer have any large bubbles splashing into my DT at all. Very small micro bubbles still however make it all the way through. The micro bubbles are not a problem at all and the salt spray/creep is now almost nonexistent. (my tangs splash out more water) It's basically the same idea/mechanics that most large commercial hydronic systems use. I just adapted it to fit my tank.

Here is my primitive hand drawing of my air separator.(sorry, don't have the fancy CAD on my puter)

The larger the diameter of the separator, the better it works. The idea being that the water will travel slower through a larger tank/pipe, giving the bubbles more time to rise up and out. I built mine out of 4" and 6" PVC pipe. I would have prefered to use larger diameter pipe, but it would not fit between my DT and the wall. I also went as tall as I could possibly make it, going from the bottom of my cabinet to the ceiling.
I used a hot air welder to build parts of mine, This was specifically to make it fit in a really tight space. Someone could certainly make one using glued fittings, if they have the room, and they aren't familiar with using a hot air welder.

The 1" check valve at the top was added to keep air from rushing back into the vessel. For some reason air would get pulled in through this vent and spray bubbles into my DT at the end of each surge, without this checkvalve.

I ran the "air vent" with a hose down into my sump, above the waterline, just to be safe. Although it does not flow water, it does carry alot of moisture.
I've once had a large Mexican Turbo crawl into the pipe where the water enters my DT and block the flow of the surge. He was strong enough to hang on, forcing the surge water to go all the way to the top of the separator, into the drain hose, and into my sump.
Was soooo glad I had decided to run that hose.

If its OK I have a few questions about the surge devices.

1 On the drawing it looks like the entrance of the 1.5" tube bringing the water from above, is located above the 2" outlet to the DT. Is this correct and if so is this intentional? I quess in that case this tube will be dry in the phase where the CSD is not flooding water or is the exit of the 1.5" sitting below the water level in the DT?

2. Does the entrance tube to the separator (1.5") enter perpendicular to the separator 4" tube or is it placed tangential so that the water inside moves in a sirkular/helix kind of way inside as opposed to with turbulense as i would with a perpendicular approach?

3. The 2" tube entering the tank is submerged all the way from the DT inlet to the bottom of the separator meaning it does not contain any air at any time. If the 2" outlet was located higher up on the separator and entering the tank by protruding it into the water, would that be a problem? Would it run dry as the surge ended and thus trapping air that would purge on the next flushing.

4. One way valve on the top. I do not quite understand why it is needed as the
air would escape naturally at the top when the water/air is rushing in. As the surge is coming to an end I guess that the separator is filled with water at a level above that of the DT as else the water would not progress through the system. When the level in the separator starts to sink and the supply from the tank above ends I guess that the supply 1.5" tube feeds the air needed to empty out the separator. This is the air one wants to get rid of so that makes sense. But I cant quite figure out the mechanics in your statement that leaving out the one way valve leads to a large amounts of air entering the DT at the end of the cycle. Please explain as I am totaly lost here :headwally:

5. Do you have a siphon break tube attached to the siphon tube (top of U-turn?) inside the CSD water tank or does it just "burp out" as the 1.5" is starved of water at the end of siphon?

6. Is there a reason for the choice of 2" and the 1.5" tubes in their respective places i.e. is it an advantage that the exit from the separator is larger than the tube coming from the CSD tank and into the separator?

7. How do you think a setup like this would work if you put the surge tank right above the DT, say under the celing in a room with the normal 8 ft celing height. I would use a 6" Internal diameter tube for the separator.

Ok, thats enough. I could ask som more questions but would be happy if you would answer these.

Thanks
Dan

 

[Reef_Noob]

Hi Steve,
This surge device got a lot of WOWWWW factor
Just ingenious. Patent it and own it!
Thanks for this patient explanation. I am sure many will take interest and install this setup.

 

[REEF SMAC]

If its OK I have a few questions about the surge devices.

Absolutely OK

1 On the drawing it looks like the entrance of the 1.5" tube bringing the water from above, is located above the 2" outlet to the DT. Is this correct and if so is this intentional? I quess in that case this tube will be dry in the phase where the CSD is not flooding water or is the exit of the 1.5" sitting below the water level in the DT?

Actually the 1.5" inlet to the separator is exactly the same level as the 2" outlet. I think this could be varied if you wanted. I built my separator to fit my tanks existing piping. I had the piping directly connected to my tank without the separator originally, so I made the separator to so it would fit in the space with the least amount of repiping.

2. Does the entrance tube to the separator (1.5") enter perpendicular to the separator 4" tube or is it placed tangential so that the water inside moves in a sirkular/helix kind of way inside as opposed to with turbulense as i would with a perpendicular approach?

The pipe is perpendicular but again this was to fit my existing piping. I think this could be varied also.

3. The 2" tube entering the tank is submerged all the way from the DT inlet to the bottom of the separator meaning it does not contain any air at any time. If the 2" outlet was located higher up on the separator and entering the tank by protruding it into the water, would that be a problem? Would it run dry as the surge ended and thus trapping air that would purge on the next flushing.

I think the 2" tube might drain each time if it was higher than the DT water level. It might even siphon some water into the DT. Then again maybe not, it's possible it might just stay full of water, maybe the water level of the separator and the DT would just equalize , with an upside down "U" full of water connecting them together. I would definitley give it a try. If it did for some reason drain out, I think that air would have to purge out on the next dump. This might be such a short distance of piping, that it might not be that much of a problem. I've seen where people drill a small hole in the side of the pipe that enters the DT, just barely above the water level, to vent that small amount of air out of that pipe.

4. One way valve on the top. I do not quite understand why it is needed as the
air would escape naturally at the top when the water/air is rushing in. As the surge is coming to an end I guess that the separator is filled with water at a level above that of the DT as else the water would not progress through the system. When the level in the separator starts to sink and the supply from the tank above ends I guess that the supply 1.5" tube feeds the air needed to empty out the separator. This is the air one wants to get rid of so that makes sense. But I cant quite figure out the mechanics in your statement that leaving out the one way valve leads to a large amounts of air entering the DT at the end of the cycle. Please explain as I am totaly lost here :headwally:

This actually baffled me too. When my dump was connected directly without the separator, the bubbles would boil out into my DT at the beginning of each dump. Then I connected my new separator, and those bubbles were gone. Then for some reason at the end of each dump, a sudden blast of bubbles would shoot out of the 2" DT inlet. I figured out that I was able to stop this last blast of bubbles by plugging the vent hose with my thumb at the end of each dump. The air purges out the vent at the top of the separator and out the vent hose to my sump, at the beginning and throughout each dump. Then at the end, for some reason, as the water level in the separator drops back down to the DT water level, the vent draws in air like a venturi. The check valve is to allow the air to escape but it doesn't let the air back in. I even tried to submerse the end of the vent hose in my sump water but the bubbles it was blowing into my sump was also a mess.

5. Do you have a siphon break tube attached to the siphon tube (top of U-turn?) inside the CSD water tank or does it just "burp out" as the 1.5" is starved of water at the end of siphon?

Yes I have a 3/8" siphon break tube at the top of the U turn.I purposely set mine up to leave about 4" of water remaining in my surge tank at all times. I have a mag 7 in the bottom of my surge tank that supplies my CA Rx, my sulfur denitrator, and my fuge. I don't want that Mag 7 to go dry.

6. Is there a reason for the choice of 2" and the 1.5" tubes in their respective places i.e. is it an advantage that the exit from the separator is larger than the tube coming from the CSD tank and into the separator?

Actually no. My DT was used and actually came with that 2" bulkhead in that loctation so I just used it. The 1.5" was just easier to pipe in my wall and seems to have plenty of volume. I think you could easily vary the pipe sizes if you wanted.

7. How do you think a setup like this would work if you put the surge tank right above the DT, say under the celing in a room with the normal 8 ft celing height. I would use a 6" Internal diameter tube for the separator.

I think it would work just fine. I've seen many that sit literally on the top of the DT that also work really well. In fact the shorter the height, the less air bubbles. (There is less pipe full of air.) The higher it is, the faster and harder it pushes into your tank, but (without a separator) more bubbles at the beginning of each dump. If your separator is larger in diameter it doesn't have to be as tall. If your separator is smaller in diameter, then it will need to be taller. It's all about slowing down the water traveling through the separator to give the bubbles a chance to rise up and out while the water is flowing down. 6" will work fine, 8'' will work better etc.
What size dump tank, and what size piping are you gonna use?
How big is your overflow drain?
Will your sump be able to handle the water level fluctuation?

Ok, thats enough. I could ask som more questions but would be happy if you would answer these.

Hope this helps. It makes a night and day difference to having a surge tank.

Thanks
Dan

You're welcome

 

[REEF SMAC]

Hi Steve,
This surge device got a lot of WOWWWW factor
Just ingenious. Patent it and own it!
Thanks for this patient explanation. I am sure many will take interest and install this setup.

Thanks Noob.
I would imagine someone has long ago patented an air separator. They are very common in hydronics piping. Haven't seen one made of PVC. Maybe someone makes them already, just haven't seen one yet. Usually they are made of carbon steel that would rust.

 

[Haddock]

You're welcome

Thanks for great answers. I appreciate it a lot.

The system I have planned to put the CSD on is still in the planning phase. It is an in-wall system with parts of it protruding into the front room with the rest of it in the tech room in the back (with a floor drain I might add.)

Front display window of 8 by 2.5 feet and a front to back of about 6.5 feet. It is not square but shaped like an old fashion TV set with the “electron canon” located in the tech room and the rest in front room making it look like a traditionally shaped aquarium with extra front-to-back depth in the middle section. It is a plywood system so there is only one viewing panel in the front. But I do consider a diorama in the back for that “endless view” effect.

Sump system is divided in two. One sump located below the tank, and a further one remote in the back of the tech room. This remote sump will act as sump for refugiums and various equipment connected to the system. Both are interconnected via large bore PVC tubing.

The plan is to have four of CSD on the system and four CL systems in addition to a wave box. CSD tanks of about the size of yours. Potentially there could be 120 gallon of water firing at the same time, so yes overflows are well sized and extra dursos at varying heights to remove all fluid.

Sump sized to be 3/4 full when CSD is in none-operational mode (must measure the water level for refilling at some time right) and ¼ full in the case that all CSD are all full and ready to fire. In that case water level in DT could rise as much as 3-4 inches. If I fill the CSD up with the you are using there should be a CSD firing every 45 seconds on an average. I hope it will be much more random than that.

The main display is planned to have about 800 gallon and total system volume of about 1500 gallons including all sub systems.

There are a lot of factors to consider when planning a system such as this and the CSD is one of the enigmas that I feel I must have in place to be happy with the design. It is so much better than any other pump (even CL) and so much more natural.

By the way: I love the micro bubbles. They look just the part and sparkles the light around.

 

[REEF SMAC]

Thanks for great answers. I appreciate it a lot.

The system I have planned to put the CSD on is still in the planning phase. It is an in-wall system with parts of it protruding into the front room with the rest of it in the tech room in the back (with a floor drain I might add.)

Front display window of 8 by 2.5 feet and a front to back of about 6.5 feet. It is not square but shaped like an old fashion TV set with the "œelectron canon" located in the tech room and the rest in front room making it look like a traditionally shaped aquarium with extra front-to-back depth in the middle section. It is a plywood system so there is only one viewing panel in the front. But I do consider a diorama in the back for that "œendless view" effect.

Sump system is divided in two. One sump located below the tank, and a further one remote in the back of the tech room. This remote sump will act as sump for refugiums and various equipment connected to the system. Both are interconnected via large bore PVC tubing.

The plan is to have four of CSD on the system and four CL systems in addition to a wave box. CSD tanks of about the size of yours. Potentially there could be 120 gallon of water firing at the same time, so yes overflows are well sized and extra dursos at varying heights to remove all fluid.

Sump sized to be 3/4 full when CSD is in none-operational mode (must measure the water level for refilling at some time right) and ¼ full in the case that all CSD are all full and ready to fire. In that case water level in DT could rise as much as 3-4 inches. If I fill the CSD up with the you are using there should be a CSD firing every 45 seconds on an average. I hope it will be much more random than that.

The main display is planned to have about 800 gallon and total system volume of about 1500 gallons including all sub systems.

There are a lot of factors to consider when planning a system such as this and the CSD is one of the enigmas that I feel I must have in place to be happy with the design. It is so much better than any other pump (even CL) and so much more natural.

By the way: I love the micro bubbles. They look just the part and sparkles the light around.

Wow! :thumbsup:

Sounds awesome Haddock.
I love the way you plan. Really sounds like you have all the right pieces.
Got a link to this project yet? Can't wait to see it.

Yah man, I really like those micro bubbles too.

 

[REEF SMAC]

 

[Reef_Noob]

Extreme awesomeness

 

[chrishayes]

gorgeous pictures, so natural.

 

[DBarsotti]

steve, what is that coral just behind the sailfin ???

 

[klepto]

steve, what is that coral just behind the sailfin ???

shhhhh.

:facepalm:

 

[chefzif]

Steve, Very cool video and tank looks awesome! Chef!

 

[REEF SMAC]

Extreme awesomeness

gorgeous pictures, so natural.

Thanks you guys. Thanks for checking it out.

steve, what is that coral just behind the sailfin ???

I think you are talking about this one-

It's a favorite of mine I picked up at the Bay Area Coral Farmers Market about four years ago. Got it from Wet Thumb Frags. Never got a name for it.

shhhhh.

:facepalm:

Yah, Don't tell anybody.

Steve, Very cool video and tank looks awesome! Chef!

Thank you chefzif.
Kraylen does do nice videos.

 

[klepto]

Yah, Don't tell anybody.

Exactly. :lmao: It's too badass to hype. I really like that coral. :thumbsup:

Just like this one!

 

[myzislow]

I think you are talking about this one-

It's a favorite of mine I picked up at the Bay Area Coral Farmers Market about four years ago. Got it from Wet Thumb Frags. Never got a name for it.

Awesome Steve, glad to see the Solar wrasse made a reappearance. Everything looks great.

I love this piece too, mine is finally getting that shine back to it, and the pink coming in nice on the coralites. My radial coralites are far more pronounced then on your piece. Its def a keeper!

 

[REEF SMAC]

Exactly. :lmao: It's too badass to hype. I really like that coral. :thumbsup:

Just like this one!

Thanks klepto.
I'm really liking that Purple Godzilla a lot these days myself.

Awesome Steve, glad to see the Solar wrasse made a reappearance. Everything looks great.

I love this piece too, mine is finally getting that shine back to it, and the pink coming in nice on the coralites. My radial coralites are far more pronounced then on your piece. Its def a keeper!

Thanks myzislow.
Glad that piece is doing well for you. The different colors it gets under different lighting is pretty amazing. Keeper for sure.

 

[REEF SMAC]

 

[REEF SMAC]

 

[Acronic]

Steve really cool macro shots. Did you take them?

U have inspired me to mix up my salt mix. I mixed IO, DD H20cean and tropic marine pro together. Im looking forward to how the tank reacts to it.