(HD720p)S.MAC 600g SPS System/Full MH + Solaris/Surge/Prop/Fuge/Pond Chiller
- Thread starter Kraylen
- Start date
coralreefdoc
New member
Excellent results, Steve ! Both before and after ... Well done 
have you changed your lighting?
REEF SMAC
New member
Hiya Steve,
Ok now it's official you are a "Coral Serial Killer"
Jokes apart what an amazing update. I would say this is Reefing at one of its best. I can very well imagine the hard work you had put into trimming and relocating corals. Wow!!!
You should be so proud you have achieved such "nitrous" accelerated growth in your system. And corals looking truly beautiful even after the "massacre" in your terms
Welcome back "Coral Gardener"
You are a true inspiration to me and everyone who loves SPS. I was feeling lazy but going through this update has recharged my batteries and I'm gonna go finish plumbing my new tank...Right now!
Thank you for sharing your journey.
Hey Noob, Thanks for all the kind words and for checking up on me my friend.
It should be official by now, cause I've killed a lot of corals over the years. Lol.:sad1:
I'm glad fellow reefers like yourself can relate to how much work this hobby can turn into sometimes.
It's funny how you can just start trimming this, moving that, while you cut this, it broke that, so you decide to move that too, but first you have to move that, so you can move this, next thing you know it's midnight and you've had your hands in the water for 12 hours.
Then the next day your spouse and non-reefing friends look at your tank and say "œWhat did you do? I don't see anything different."
Glad to hear I got you inspired to work on that new setup of yours.
Thanks Bax,
Some do like the extra swimming room and others I think are kinda upset cause I rearranged a lot of their hiding spots.
It's been interesting to watch all my fish constantly swimming around trying to learn the new scape. I actually lost my large Naso when I went out of town for several days after rearranging my scape quite a bit. For some reason he trapped himself up inside some coral colonies I had moved. It looked like he swam into a crevice, maybe one he was used to swimming through for a long time, but this time he ended up trapping himself there where he couldn't go forward and couldn't figure out how to go backwards either. I think he just panicked, thrashed around until he killed himself. (or had a heart attack) I've had him for more than 5 years so I was pretty bummed about it.
REEF SMAC
New member
Thanks Santoki for the kind words.
I really jumped into the LED thing pretty early on. Mine were the Solaris LEDs that were probably one of the first major ones out there. I bought the 3 watt version in 2008 and was so impressed with it that I bought two of the 4 watt versions when they came out in 2009. I had pretty good results with them for about two years. The video that Kraylen posted of my tank, the first one linked at the beginning of this thread, I think pretty well shows what great results I was having with these LEDs. Pretty much everything you see growing under those LEDs was grown from 1" frags. Growing side by side with 400 MHs there wasn't much difference in color or growth really.
It was after the second year that these LEDs really began to deteriorate. Besides the obvious failures like bulbs, and power sources that stopped working, you could really start to see a pattern of how the corals that were directly under these LEDs were declining. I am thankful to this day that I still had MHs hanging over my tank at the time to show me that it wasn't a water quality issue or something else. The LED unit that I still have working today (only by cannibalizing the other two units) looks really bright. I don't have a par meter to actually measure it nor do I have par readings from when they were new to compare. I honestly think it's a combination of lower par and spectrum shift but I have no scientific data to back this up. The best I can explain it, is that it is similar to having two year old MH or T5 bulbs over your tank. Looks really bright, just won't grow anything but brown and/or dead corals.
LEDs have a lot of great qualities and I really hope they get better in the future.
I really have no idea what kind of drivers that the Solaris were using. Maybe someone else can chime in that knows. I've read several things about how Solaris did this wrong and that wrong, how their design could have been better, etc. I am still not really convinced yet that any of the newer ones are any better.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me the one that actually is.
I constantly lurk all the LED threads out there and follow the debates. I can say from personal experience that LEDs can grow some nice looking SPS.
The problem as I see it now is, for how long?
"œLet's see your LED tanks up for a year" is really no big deal if you can afford to buy new fixtures every year or every other year.
I'm gonna wait until I see that tank still running the same LED fixture for a least 4 years with consistent results before I waste another penny on them. Let's see one that has been running for even half of that 50,000 hours that is constantly claimed.
Thanks Moser,
I honestly think I had more issues with corals that I moved down lower in my tank than ones that were light shocked. The few that did bleach a little for a while really seemed to recover just fine. A few LPS pieces took it the worst. A few Acros that were up high close to lights getting a ton of flow didn't do well at all when I moved them down to less light, less flow. I really don't know why exactly. I think it might have something to do with their growth formation as a result of where they were used to growing. Maybe that growth formation didn't work in a different (less flow) environment. Would love to know honestly. It really made me think as to why some of those wild/maricultured don't do so well when they are moved from where they were once a lot happier. Strange how they could do so well for so many years in my tank and then I move them to a different, very similar spot, and they STN while others adapted just fine and have never looked better.
Not too many casualties overall though.
Probably would have been smart for me to acclimate the lighting a little better for a few of my corals though definitely.
Excellent results, Steve ! Both before and after ... Well done
Thank you coralreefdoc.
I still have (4) MHs over my tank that have been over it almost from the beginning. I changed out my failed LEDs to (4) SeaShine Plasmas a little over two years ago now.
They have been great so far and have definitely outperformed my LEDs BTW.
Thank you my friend.
Reef on!
veloboy
New member
Thanks for the updates RS. I always look forward to them! Very interesting to read about your experience thinning/relocating your acros. Shows we still have so much to learn about them. Sometimes it seems that they are masters of survival growing toward light and flow until they flourish. Other times they STN just because of a change in the flow within the same tank. This is why we love them though!
Keep the photos and updates coming! Thanks for sharing!
Keep the photos and updates coming! Thanks for sharing!
aandfsoccr04
Active member
Wow your tank is such an inspiration. The growth and size of your corals is outstanding. It gives us newer reefers something to look up to and try and immulate. Such a beautiful tank. Happy reefing :thumbsup:
Santoki
Shimmer Addict
Thanks Steve,
these are definitely useful observations since most people are constantly tweaking their setup and introducing so many new variables that it is hard to know what is really happening.
I think your guesses (reduced PAR and/or spectral shift in the Luxeon emitters after two years in service) are the only logical explanations I could think of as well. I know the Luxeons were considered some of the best LEDs available at the time the Solaris was being produced and had relatively good lumen maintenance characteristics. So, perhaps it had to do with shortcomings relating to cooling design which caused early degradation. It is possible that the power supply output was diminished as well over time, but I think that may be less likely.
Whatever the cause, these are definitely important observations to keep in mind for anyone running LEDs.
I have had my LEDs running for almost 3 years. So far everything seems fine, but perhaps I should be renewing the emitters on at least one of my pendents in efforts to detect any degradation of the original units. At least this will give me a better idea of the real world replacement intervals.
-Robert
REEF SMAC
New member
Thanks Bax,
You are so right. There is always some kind of risk to just about everything you do when it comes to reefing.
I hesitated for a long time undertaking this project fearing that I might lose a few corals along the way. I've found out over the years that some corals just don't like to be moved.
Just never expected to lose a fish from doing a rescape.
Hey zaheda,
You never know, you might get lucky and buy the first LED fixture that actually lives up to all the hype they sell them with.
There are a lot of factors and personal preferences that go into deciding whether a certain type of lighting is "worth buying" IMO. As with any lighting source, Plasmas have their pros and cons. Plasmas are very much like running 400w MHs. The main difference being that they are dimmable, change colors when you dim them, less heat, less power consumption. I personally think that if someone would somehow come up with a design that is more of a pendant look, something that looks a little more elegant hanging over your tank, they would sell a lot more. Especially with the whole open top rimless craze that is so very popular today.
I honestly love how well Plasmas have performed for me so far. My corals have responded very well to them. They seem to be competing with my 400w MHs just fine so far. In hind sight I wish that I would have bought Plasmas instead of the LEDs. (Although the Plasmas weren't available to the public back then).
Recently when my Plasmas passed the two year old mark I called up Seashine to inquire about purchasing new bulbs for them. I was interested to compare new bulbs with ones that I that I had been running for two years. I found out that they had changed the design of the bulbs since the time I had purchased mine. The newer bulbs are slightly larger in size, now mount horizontally, and they're in a newer larger reflector. Seashine was very generous, made me a hell of a deal on changing out my old bulbs and reflectors to the newer style. I think partly because I was a very early customer when they first came out to the public. I changed them out two at a time, so it was interesting to see the two year old ones hanging side by side with new ones. The new ones were definitely visually brighter but it's hard to say if that is because of the new bulb and reflector design or because of the decline of the old bulbs or as I suspect, both. Not a really fair comparison, beings it was not really apples to apples. Either way, all said now to date, I've spent the same money for Plasmas as I did on LEDs, two years later my Plasmas still work like new (maybe even better).
Thank you for the kind words veloboy,
I totally agree. Sometimes these corals can be extremely tough and other times go up in flames from what seems like the slightest little change.
You gotta love em.
Thank you aandfsoccr04,
I'm really glad I could pass on some of that inspiration that so many others have given me along the way. I was once a newer reefer myself not too long ago. (it really doesn't seem like too long ago)
Time flies fast, one minute you're obsessing over placing little tiny frags in your tank, thinking how bare it looks, wondering when they're finally gonna start growing, and the next thing you know your corals are huge, overgrown, and you are trying to decide which one to chop or get rid of.
Always a work in progress..
Hey Santoki,
I'm really glad to hear that you've had three years of success with the same LEDs. This really gives me some hope that there are some LEDs out there that do last a lot longer. I've seen a few tanks that claim to have been grown for three or more years under LEDs but they have changed to different fixtures sometime along the way. I would really be interested to hear about your observations when and if you decide to change out some of your now three year old emitters. Would be very interesting to hear about your observations as to differences you find such as par or spectrum differences even though you have only had them running for less than a quarter of their supposed life span, especially if you decide to run the old and the new ones side by side for a while.
As far as the Solaris design, I honestly don't know how they could have done a better job at cooling them. They ran (4) temperature controlled, variable speed fans in each of my fixtures (two in, two out), the fixture temp is always shown on the controller display, the emitters automatically shut off if the temp ever gets too high, and they used the same aluminum heat sinks everyone else still seems to be using. Besides the fact that the weather is always cool here where I live. I've never noticed any difference in the power sources whether old or new. They would just be either on or off.
A lot of people are watching the Vivid Aquarium half LED, half MH tank right now. They are seeing how corals are doing side by side in the same tank, under each type of lighting.
This was pretty much how my personal experiment went back in 2009. The results Vivid is reporting for the current time they've had them is pretty much the same results I was getting also. It will be interesting to see if Vivid still has the same original LED fixtures over their tank three to four years from now and how well they are doing. Much less that, so far, fantasized ten years.
Reef on!
Reef_Noob
New member
Hey Steve,
Very true what you have said. Some SPS react even to slightest disturbance of the sand bed. Consistent stability is the key. Keeps us SPS reefers like standing on a needle tip and without swaying
+1 on " "œWhat did you do? I don't see anything different."
But usually spouses first reaction is "What is that on the floor and what have you done to the carpet, so on and so forth"
All part of the fun
Losing a fish trapped in coral is something that will happen in a great tank like yours with such excellent growth of corals. Though losing a fish is always unfortunate and sad...I'm trying to point out the positive for you
Your reef will always remain an inspiration to me
REEF SMAC
New member
Hey Steve,
Very true what you have said. Some SPS react even to slightest disturbance of the sand bed. Consistent stability is the key. Keeps us SPS reefers like standing on a needle tip and without swaying
+1 on " "œWhat did you do? I don't see anything different."
But usually spouses first reaction is "What is that on the floor and what have you done to the carpet, so on and so forth"
All part of the fun
Losing a fish trapped in coral is something that will happen in a great tank like yours with such excellent growth of corals. Though losing a fish is always unfortunate and sad...I'm trying to point out the positive for you
Your reef will always remain an inspiration to me
Thanks for the kind words Noob.
Keeping the floor and carpet clean and dry (or at least having it go unnoticed) is definitely one of the most difficult parts of reefing, that is for sure.
REEF SMAC, First of all, congrats on all of your work. Your tank looks incredible!. Do you still recommend/use that brand of epoxy or should I consider another epoxy to do something similar to what you have done with our tank? Where do you buy it retail?
thanks!
thanks!
After that I completely covered the foam with a 1/4" layer of POLYGEM. It's this really awesome two part epoxy that you mix together in a 50 - 50 mix. It takes about 2 to 4 hours to "go off ", so you have plenty of time to work with it. It's about the consistancy of peanut butter, when you mix it together, to work with it. You mix it with a "thickener" that POLYGEM sells with it. This thickener is a powder, very similar to flour. You mix the two part epoxy together on a layer of this thickener so it won't stick to the board you are mixing it on. It's like making pie crust on a layer of flour. You wear latex gloves when you work with it, and as long as you keep your gloves wet, by dipping them often in water, the epoxy won't stick to your gloves.
After applying the layer of POLYGEM over the hardened sprayfoam, I used a silicone rubber mold of rock texture,(also dipped in water) to imprint a rock texture into the POLYGEM before it hardens. It's actually pretty easy to work with once you get it down. I had to buy two gallons of both part A and B to have enough for my tank. It's an off white color, very similar color to live rock, so it looks pretty real when you are done. It's paintable after it's hard, if you for some reason want to paint it. It cleans up with water as long as it's still soft.
Anyway here's the stuff.
REEF SMAC
New member
Thanks for the kind words MadBeach,
POLYGEM is a great product. Great to work with, not a whole bunch of fumes, cleans up easy, off white color that looks the same as calcium rock, paintable, hours of time to work with it before it sets up, coraline grows on it just fine, it's like hard plastic after it sets up. Pretty hard to beat really.
I'm sure there are others out there, I'm just not familiar with any.
I've seen many many gallons of it used to make public aquarium exibits of all kinds, everything from mud banks, eal tunnels, backgrounds, mangrove roots etc.
After seeing the rock scaping contractors use it so many times and seeing what they could do with this stuff, is why I became interested in using it on my system.
I've never seen it retail anywhere. I actually called POLYGEM and got mine directly from them.
aandfsoccr04
Active member
I was just looking through all your photos again and thought to myself, no way this guy hasn't won TOTM. I went and searched and sure enough you have back in January. So for that, congrats on such a huge honor! Your tank is so beautiful :thumbsup:
I was wondering in your TOTM write up (http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/107-tank-of-the-month#), what is the zoas that are green and orange in the bottom row in the middle in the last set of pictures? Those are stunning and one of a kind.
I was wondering in your TOTM write up (http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/107-tank-of-the-month#), what is the zoas that are green and orange in the bottom row in the middle in the last set of pictures? Those are stunning and one of a kind.
Chris Lakies
Active member
Jam packed tank!!!
Fricken Massive!!
Fricken Massive!!
