HELP! All my tangs are DEAD!

[fullkontact]

I'd prolly be a little grumpy too if my fish died, especially after all the work we do.

Have you added any phosphate remover lately? Just a shot in the dark, but the last reef cast mentioned something about a certain brand killing tangs.

 

[DJ88©]

If kalk is too saturated it will cause a spike in pH. This stuff usually is near 12pH or so and can go higher if I remember correctly.

Is this residue new? or has it always been there. When I drip Kalk I always notice a little bit in the area I an dripping.

 

[reef10]

high bioload will create a problem with o2. The fish are sucking it up very quickly and the equipment is putting it back in (skimmer). The problem is the tank is very marginal. Any power blip that last for 1 or 2 hours espically at night will cause the o2 to drop and the ph to drop and will kill healty fish quickly. The fish will have been fine before and the water will be fine after the power is back on at least until the ammonia starts to go up if you (or the clean up crew) doesn't remove the fish. Small fish are generally the last to go but some types are more suspectiable.

Do you have battery backup? What does it run? Do you have battery airpump? What safties and backups are on the system?

 

[viceversabrd]

Well, whatever caused this seems to only have affected the 5 specific tangs, One thing that comes to mind is the food, If frozen food is dethawed and then refrozen it can be extremely lethal to fish, if the tangs are the only fish that ate say a frozen aglae mix because they are the only herbivores in the tank than this could cause death of only the tangs or if you tried to mix something new into their diet from an LFS , just an insight
viceversabrd

 

[dj synystr]

ok yes i did a water change, sucked out debris, and replaced my phospate media, but i used the same kind i have been using from the start of my phosphate reactor. the food is eaten by all the tank maters, damsels, lion fish, trigger, shrimp, mandarin , she likes the cyclopeeze. as for a power outage my freind was sitting on the couch in front of the tank ALL night wathcing tv and the power did not go out. i dont have battery backup but i do have a battery operate airpump. what else could cause this risde in co2? doesnt adding agitation from the sump, skimmer, overflows and all the water movement add o2 into the water at the same time? and again the tank is an established one and the tangs have been all together for some time with no ill effects. the bio load actually is less than it was a few months ago due to a loss of a spotted goby.

 

[reefshadow]

Smokers in the house? Poor ventilation? Gas range or appliances/heating? Just having alot of people/pets breathing in a well insulated home can cause a rise in co2, lower oxygen. Just some ideas for you.

 

[dj synystr]

wow. ok but wouldnt the airbubbles in the sump and all the other sumps in my system add o2?

 

[reefpeep2004]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6678411#post6678411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dj synystr
here we go with the damn tang police. the tangs have been in there for a LONG time doing fine. the fish were all happy my bio load is FINE. i dont have the WALL O ROCK like most of you on here. i now notice my smaller niger trigger is acting funny as well.

as for levels in check as in

Ammonia ZERO
Nitrates ZERO
Phosphates ZERO
Ph 8.4
Calcium 430
Alk was in the NORMAL range
temp 86.7

I'm surprised you had 5 dead fish decomposing and being eaten, and still measure ZERO ammonia and nitrates? You tested, correct?

 

[dj synystr]

yes they were werent dead at 430 am but they were at 830 when i woke up. there werent eaten the urchin was on one of them and the others were lying on the bottom. i tested right last night when i seen them acting funny and those were the results. lol and if the ammonia is high after they died how would that kill them.

 

[asnatlas]

Rcarruth

To Reef Central

 

[mhurley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6678945#post6678945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dj synystr
wow. ok but wouldnt the airbubbles in the sump and all the other sumps in my system add o2?

Not if o2 levels in the whole house were low. Those things don't manufacture o2, they must move it around.

 

[dascharisma]

This story sounds fishy.

 

[dj synystr]

lol at the story sounding fishy. im my main sump area there is 3 inches from where the water falls out of the plumbing till it hits the water IE cause AIRBUBBLES in the water. this is done from 3 pipes going into the main sump. then you have the air bubbles being put in from the skimmer and the water falls 2 inches from the skimmer drain into the refugiuum and frag tanks.

 

[DJ88©]

in all honesty you aren't going to nail it down to exactly what happend unless you do a full autopsy of each fish.

serious.

we can help you speculate and make well intentioned guesses but that is all.

Anytime a large number of fish die at once you need to look at what YOU have done to bring this about.

I'd be very suprised if it wasn't something related to the number of fish in your tank.

With the indicators given. I'd lean towards lack of O2. Especially since 9 other fish survived and all that did die were larger more active fish(I am presuming since you didn't list the other occupants). This is more likely to happen in winter when your house is sealed up tight against the cold.

With that said again I will say that you aren't going to know with 100% certainty unless you can either witness an attack, see a tank parameter that is off enough to cause this or you yourself are the cause due to something happening.

So take from it what you want. But do realise that most people here will say that your tank IS overstocked and that isn't even counting the nine fish we don't know what they are.

 

[reefshadow]

As mhurley pointed out, even adequate aeration does not manufacture o2, if levels in the house are depressed for whatever reason, levels in the aquarium are going to be similarily depressed. It does happen.

Was your roommate sitting in front of the tank watching tv all night smoking? If smoking is allowed in your house, look at increasing ventilation. Smoking does not only kill people... of course o2 can be low for other reasons


this is all conjecture, but with the information you've given, it seems like the most probable cause to me.

 

[clkwrk]

Well Said DJ88

 

[BrianD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6678411#post6678411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dj synystr
here we go with the damn tang police. the tangs have been in there for a LONG time doing fine.

Your definition of a "long time" is quite different from mine. Back in this thread in June 2005, you were advised not to add another tang. You did it anyway (thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=616938&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

Then, in December, you posted a thread about buying a new hippo tang.

It is quite clear what your stocking choices have accomplished.

 

[Drewcipher]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6679179#post6679179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dj synystr
lol at the story sounding fishy. im my main sump area there is 3 inches from where the water falls out of the plumbing till it hits the water IE cause AIRBUBBLES in the water. this is done from 3 pipes going into the main sump. then you have the air bubbles being put in from the skimmer and the water falls 2 inches from the skimmer drain into the refugiuum and frag tanks.

Stated simply air and O2 are NOT the same thing. O2 is a component of air. In a well insulated room with no one in it there will be more O2 than if there are people breathing. Our bodies use the O2 in air to keep us going and then expels CO2. Plants use the CO2 and expel O2, as so on.

In a tank air from the room enters through an air pump or wet/dry cascade or whatever. The O2 content of that air can vary based on many factors. I know in the summer if I leave my house closed and use the air conditioner for 2 or 3 straight days w/o opening doors or windows, there is a decrease in my tanks pH. I can only attribute this to higher CO2 levels. Once I open up the house, the pH begins to climb again.

That being said, the large number of fish in your tank could possibly have simply depleted the O2 faster than it could be replenished. The fact they have been in there for a "long time" doesn't matter. The fish grow and demands grow as well. It is probable you have been walking a tightrope for some time. Also, for a tang a long time is more like 10 years, not 1 or 2. All this being said, I have a hard time believing that all 5 tangs would have died all at once from this problem. I would expect some to last longer and maybe some even survive, but I am not sure.

Is it possible that someone used a spray cleaner or bug spray in the room? Any work of any kind done in the room or near the tank? If you can eliminate any external source of contaminant, then I think, w/o autopsy, that the most likely explanation is O2 deprivation.

Keep us updated on the progress of the trigger. If it improves or worsens. Give details of its behavior. Does it eat, etc...?

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

I would point to o2. I had a "mystery" tang death in my 75 during a time when I had closed off the tank for a day to do some sheetrock work in area the tank was. I bought a dissolved o2 kit, found it to be low, and figured that was it -- I choked him to death.

That many fish (and large fish) in a 125 really does mean that you have a very short window for a power interruption or the like before lack of o2 kills the biggest fish first.

 

[dj synystr]

trigger is looking fine. as for smoking its a non smoking house. and why would it happen all of the sudden. i have had the heat on all winter with windows closed. i guess its just a loss. and as for the fish again i say my bio load was fine. and in the same post someone as well as i stated that equipment has changed a ton since those books were written.