HELP mass SPS death.

Z

Zombie Reef

New member
I figure I have used up all my knowledge and my brain is starting to hurt, :headwallblue: so I need some help. I am going to give as much information as I can so this is a long post. Sorry about that...

I have had Acroporas for years. LARGE colonies and they are all dead or dying.
I have recently set up a 250 gallon reef with basement fish room with another 250 to 300 gallons of water volume.

I use brightwell aquatics NeoMarine salt.

For filtration I have EcoSystem mud in a 30 long refugium.
For a skimmer I have an ASM G3 in a Rubber Maid stock tank.
I have Cryptic zone filtration in a 70 gallon sump.
A coral grow out in a 60 gallon Deep Blue Aquarium Frag Tank. w 1 koralia 4
The entire system is ran off a 6000 gph pump
The display tank has a sea swirl connected to a 1200 gph closed loop
Two Vortech MP 40s on reef crest random mode.
Two Hydor Koralia 4 1200 gph pumps.

For lighting

Frag tank 2 Blue Moon Aquatics P 30s
For 250 gallon display tank, 3 Reefbirte XHOs and two 400 watt halides.
One reefbrite standard output on a 40 gallon reef in the basement fish room.

For calcium I use Kalkwasser.

I run a 3 gpd dosing pump and use it for all top off.
The system has been set up for two months at this time.

I lost almost all my Montiporas and most of my Acroporas, they went down hill a week after the move.

I have red bugs and have eliminated them with Interceptor.
I have had Red bugs for at least 8 years but they weren't doing any significant damage and the colonies were growing like crazy with nice color.
I never wanted to do anything about it until the loss of SPS, not just Acroporas but all SPS corals after the move. Once the corals started dwindling the Red Bugs had to move to the remaining colonies and the numbers on those corals were out of proportion and causing too much damage to the colony so I had to use the treatment. there are no more bugs but the colonies continue to die.

I did have a dip in KH, it went down to 6 but went back up to 8-9 in the first few days of the new system. The corals are hanging on but it doesn't look good...

All LPS corals are fine.

PH 8.4
Kh 9
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
PO4 0
CA 400
 
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One time? It's been stable since then and the Acros keep their color until the skin just falls off. the coral look fine for weeks then they die. The swing happened over six weeks ago...

Does it take that long to lose everything? I have had swings before in other new systems in the past and never lost any corals. Are the remaining Acroporas doomed?
 
It is only my older colonies that are dying, newer colonies look better but I have one older tabling acro that is unaffected and looks fine. I have one old tabling acro that is RTNing and I don't think it is going to make it. New small frags look good. Frags in my frag tank look perfect one day and dead the next just skeleton remains.

I switched salt brands for the new system because I started using it for water changes in my old system just before the move. I don't know if the 100% salt change could have done it.

It looks like I will be starting over if some of the corals don't recover soon.
Some are hanging on longer then others.
 
Exactly what parts of your new setup are new? Did you move everything from an old system, or did you move the tank you have now? As painful as it may be, can you show a before and after picture(s)?
 
I set up the entire new system in my new house. I sold my old system after moving the reef and fish to the new house. These are new pictures.
I have old Pictures in storage but not with me.

picture.php


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I keep thinking that but every time I go to the store to buy a kit, I am assured it's not the problem because all my other corals are fine. I have so much water volume it would have to be a lot of copper.
 
I had a similar problem with my 180 total water volume and some of my stuff was doing ok and alot was dying my chalices all made it but my SPS all bleached and eventually died with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 the dead giveaway for me was all my snails and inverts kicked off so I knew I had a copper issue. Turns out I had some brass fittings on a replacement pump that I did not realize or catch and boy did I ever feel stupid. Good luck I hope you find your problem it is a miserable feeling when this happens, but it is very relieving when you figure out what the problem is!
 
Do you use kents carbon? I hear that their carbon has had a bad batch with toxic levels of copper.

Sent from mobile
 
Sounds like new tank syndrome. You probably had a large overnight cycle that you could not test for. It stressed out a lot a couple of larger colonies wich affected other colonies. A 2 month old tank is way to new to support a full reef system. It cycles multiple times over a years period. I'm sorry this happened, frag the larger colonies before its too late did the healthy frags in iodine mix for ten minutes and glue the dead areas.
 
I think I may wait it out and try a new frag in the system to see if it is the system or just from stress. If it is stress related the new frag should be fine. I just hate watching this happen to more then a decade of growth.
 
reefinder said:
Sounds like new tank syndrome. You probably had a large overnight cycle that you could not test for. It stressed out a lot a couple of larger colonies wich affected other colonies. A 2 month old tank is way to new to support a full reef system. It cycles multiple times over a years period. I'm sorry this happened, frag the larger colonies before its too late did the healthy frags in iodine mix for ten minutes and glue the dead areas.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as an "overnight cycle", especially a large one. Cycles happen for very definite reasons and are a biological response to the presence of certain compounds in the water and follow predictable patterns. Tanks should not cycle several times in the first year. Ammonia spikes occur when something starts producing ammonia faster than it can be consumed by the existing bacterial colonies. It is not possible to have ammonia spike to deadly levels one night and be undetectable either the day before or after the occurance. Bacterial consumption/population simply does not work that way.

Regarding the deaths of the SPS, it will be very difficult to determine what exactly caused this since virtually everything changed when you moved them from one system to another. It is not that your current conditions are poor, just that they are likely different enough that your older colonies are not acclimating well. The fact that those are the ones that you are having the most problems with points toward this as well. The alk fluctuation may be related, maybe not. It at least likely added stress on already stressed animals. Alk swings have not had the same disasterous effects on my acros although my Seriatopora are the first to react badly if it drops too quickly.

Normally, fragging would be the best course of action and I would still suggest it. Unless you are actually seeing them live otherwise, I suspect that the frags that die would not survive if left as part of the parent colony anyway. In any case, I hope that things stabilize soon and the deaths stop.
 
What did you use for the water supply, RO/DI or tap water, I did not see it mentioned. You say you moved to a new house, did you switch to/from well to city water or vice versa? Did tou test raw water, The freshly made up salt water? You say you also changed salt mix for the entire tank instead of just make up/water changes, did you test this for params compared to what you were using? There can be big differences in salt mixes, I have not used yours so cannot comment on it. Perhaps you have some old salt left and can compare?I am not an "expert" so I look at the basics first instead of assuming anything. Just as a side note I have a very small water volume so swings happen quickly if I am not dilligent. I have not had the kind of severe reactions you are experiencing so while not good, I dont think the alk swing was the cause Good luck.
 
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No offence Richard, but do you have any proof to back up your last statements. I doubt it, because all you can do is quote other reefers and there experiences. I have been doing this a long time and have seen tanks go through defirent algae cycles and conditions in the first years. You bodly say it does not happen and point blank you are WRONG. Happy reefing
 
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