OK guys, as some of you know or if you can determine from my signature I have a spare 55g tank that I have not decided what to do with yet. Common "fishkeeping" sense has told me to dub it as a hospital/QT tank. So, from the beginning how should I set this up? In the past I threw one together quickly as an emergency tank when I had an outbreak of ich, because I treated with copper. That tank was bare bottom, I threw in some PVC for hiding places, threw on a HOB filter and that was it. Fish were cured and I took down the tank, that was a year ago. I plan on keeping this one up permanently. Ideally, what should a tank like this consist of? I've seen some of fuji's. His hospital tanks are bare bottom with a few hiding places. His QT tanks have lots of chaeto/live plants, etc. in there for grazing and such. What would be a good setup structure for a primary quarantine tank/backup emergency tank such as this? I would like to grow some chaeto/macro in there as it probably wont' be used that much.
Help me set up a quarantine tank
- Thread starter jmccown
- Start date
firefish2020
New member
QT tanks are IMO unnecessary if you are buying from well trusted sources as most places will hold your fish for you till they are sure it's safe to go to the new home.
Why would I say that QTs are not necessary and risk such a fire storm? It comes from experience like all my responses. I have come to see that if fish are properly acclimated and cared for,there is little chance of any serious problems arising. I prefer and suggest drip acclimation in which the system water and the water the fish is in are slowly raised to the same pH, temp, etc levels. This goes a long way in reducing stress in animals. If you are worried about parasites I suggest a good UV sterilizer as a back up to any tank, especially if you are contemplating some of the bigger tangs (hippo,Atlantic,etc). Of course this also has a lot to do with where the fish are from, not the LFSs boys and girls, but the place the fish was shipped from. Ca, HI, Fl the list goes on and on. The longer the animal was in transit and or in holding before reaching your LFS, there is likely to be a problem. Lets also not forget most LFS and almost all big mega shops have no idea where there shipments originated or how the animals were caught. That's why most LFS will like to hold there arrivals for several days to weeks depending on what was ordered before selling.
IMO the stress of moving a fish from the LFS tanks to your QT tank and then into yet another tank increases it's risk of acclimation mortality. Again that's my opinion and not a FACT, it is based upon what I have seen and witnessed over the past several years first hand.
To answer your question though, include NO PLANTS OR ROCK WORK IN A QT TANK. Any substrate or rough media will be ideal for parasites to adhere to and quickly overrun such a tank. Feed sparingly and clean frequently as you do not want much waste in the system.
Hope this helps,
Ron
Why would I say that QTs are not necessary and risk such a fire storm? It comes from experience like all my responses. I have come to see that if fish are properly acclimated and cared for,there is little chance of any serious problems arising. I prefer and suggest drip acclimation in which the system water and the water the fish is in are slowly raised to the same pH, temp, etc levels. This goes a long way in reducing stress in animals. If you are worried about parasites I suggest a good UV sterilizer as a back up to any tank, especially if you are contemplating some of the bigger tangs (hippo,Atlantic,etc). Of course this also has a lot to do with where the fish are from, not the LFSs boys and girls, but the place the fish was shipped from. Ca, HI, Fl the list goes on and on. The longer the animal was in transit and or in holding before reaching your LFS, there is likely to be a problem. Lets also not forget most LFS and almost all big mega shops have no idea where there shipments originated or how the animals were caught. That's why most LFS will like to hold there arrivals for several days to weeks depending on what was ordered before selling.
IMO the stress of moving a fish from the LFS tanks to your QT tank and then into yet another tank increases it's risk of acclimation mortality. Again that's my opinion and not a FACT, it is based upon what I have seen and witnessed over the past several years first hand.
To answer your question though, include NO PLANTS OR ROCK WORK IN A QT TANK. Any substrate or rough media will be ideal for parasites to adhere to and quickly overrun such a tank. Feed sparingly and clean frequently as you do not want much waste in the system.
Hope this helps,
Ron
The way I see it anything can happen. The unexpected should be expected. Never hurts to be prepared. In my case a year ago I bought a very, very nice looking powder blue. I waited a while before I bought him from the LFS and kept a check on him. Seemed he was very healthy, kept a good appetite and all. Good size, nice color seemed to be a perfect specimen. So I took him home. Things seemed fine for a couple of days then a terrible outbreak of ich invaded. I lost the PBT and a blue throat trigger to boot. I pulled all the fish remaining out because they had spots on them as well and QT'ed them. Certainly I know that PBT's are especially ich prone, but by pulling those fish to the QT tank I was able to treat them without getting meds in my display tank. So I guess just a bare tank is best then, so that there can be no place for the parasites to hide in. I'm still saving to get a 36w UV, I have a 16w pond UV that I am gonna hook up to the system for the time being. Thanks for the advice.
WVfishguy
New member
Good God, I can't believe what I'm reading here.
Quarantine tanks unnecessary? Sweet Lord!
Does anyone honestly believe salt water fish can't take changes in pH, temperature and salinity? Do you think the oceans of the world (or any other aquatic system) are such stable environments that slight variances in water parameters will kill them?
I can just imagine plopping animals - freshwater or salt - into a customer's tank without first putting them through a quarantine period. I'd kill so much livestock I'd be out of business in a month. My customers would fire me.
Few published authorities, i.e. Fenner, Calfo, Borneman, Shimek, et al., agree on much - but they all recognize the need for a quarantine tank. The reason is common sense. Aquarists who don't quarantine simply have not lost enough livestock. In other words, if you think quarantine tanks are unnecessary, you simply lack experience (Don't take that personally, Ron. You're just a lot younger than me.)
OK - I'm finished with the rant.
I keep a 38-gallon tank complete with live rock, strong c/f lighting, caulerpa, power filter with carbon, protein skimmer and UV sterilizer. I've found the UV sterilizer negates the need for medication in most instances. I also have a similar 90 gallon setup for larger animals. These are both simply quarantine tanks. The fish which go in these tanks are going to stay there for at least a month. Admittedly, I'm responsible for more livestock than a hobbyist. But I had quarantine tanks long before I went pro. Like I said- it's common sense.
Of course, I keep an empty aquarium around so I can set up a medication tank if needed. I can use the water and filter from the established QT tanks to avoid losses from ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
HOWEVER - Not using a QT is a great way to re-learn humility. Like I did this year, when (expert that I am) I shortened the quarantine process to just a week (after all, it was just a couple of small Heniochus) and lost a beautiful Blue-girdled Angel I had for several years, a Harlequin Tuskfish and a 7 inch Banana Wrasse.
Like I said before, experience will show the need for a quarantine tank.
BTW - "experience" is simply a fancy way of saying "I've screwed up a lot." An "expert" is someone who screwed up a lot, but learned from his/her mistakes.
Quarantine tanks unnecessary? Sweet Lord!
Does anyone honestly believe salt water fish can't take changes in pH, temperature and salinity? Do you think the oceans of the world (or any other aquatic system) are such stable environments that slight variances in water parameters will kill them?
I can just imagine plopping animals - freshwater or salt - into a customer's tank without first putting them through a quarantine period. I'd kill so much livestock I'd be out of business in a month. My customers would fire me.
Few published authorities, i.e. Fenner, Calfo, Borneman, Shimek, et al., agree on much - but they all recognize the need for a quarantine tank. The reason is common sense. Aquarists who don't quarantine simply have not lost enough livestock. In other words, if you think quarantine tanks are unnecessary, you simply lack experience (Don't take that personally, Ron. You're just a lot younger than me.)
OK - I'm finished with the rant.
I keep a 38-gallon tank complete with live rock, strong c/f lighting, caulerpa, power filter with carbon, protein skimmer and UV sterilizer. I've found the UV sterilizer negates the need for medication in most instances. I also have a similar 90 gallon setup for larger animals. These are both simply quarantine tanks. The fish which go in these tanks are going to stay there for at least a month. Admittedly, I'm responsible for more livestock than a hobbyist. But I had quarantine tanks long before I went pro. Like I said- it's common sense.
Of course, I keep an empty aquarium around so I can set up a medication tank if needed. I can use the water and filter from the established QT tanks to avoid losses from ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
HOWEVER - Not using a QT is a great way to re-learn humility. Like I did this year, when (expert that I am) I shortened the quarantine process to just a week (after all, it was just a couple of small Heniochus) and lost a beautiful Blue-girdled Angel I had for several years, a Harlequin Tuskfish and a 7 inch Banana Wrasse.
Like I said before, experience will show the need for a quarantine tank.
BTW - "experience" is simply a fancy way of saying "I've screwed up a lot." An "expert" is someone who screwed up a lot, but learned from his/her mistakes.
phljess
New member
I agree with WV Fish Guy a quarantine tank is necessary. I would not put any live rock or sand in it though because a quarantine tank does not need to be kept all the time unless you are introducing new fish frequently. Also if you use copper-based medications in the tank you will not want to put the live rock in any reef tanks.
However, I do not believe in UV sterilizers. I used one for a couple years did not see any real use for it so I got rid of it. I believe they might be a minimally useful in controling nuisance algaes but besides this I think they are a waste of money. I know everyone is now collecting stones to throw at me but that is ok because I am in my backyard vintage 1952 nuclear fall out shelter and not afraid of any of you UV disciples.
Before the stones start to fly let me explain why I do not use them.
1. They kill almost any microscopic critters that flow through their light. This means bad plus good. And you guys wonder why your tanks lack mini-stars, copeopods, and mysis.
2. I can control nuisance algaes in a more natural way. Use clean water, do not over feed, use macros to deprive nuisance algaes of nutrition.
And a little on the technological side keep my pH up and skim the tank -bam not much algae.
3. I have never seen a UV sterilizer alone be able to rid a tank of ick or other parasites once they have been severely introduced. Which is the way it happens, somebody who does not have a QT dumps an unacclimated fish into a tank and then they can watch the opening series of Stephen King's "The Stand" happen right before their eyes.
4. One last thing how many of you go to the tanning salon when you have an illness? Or do you have it treated with proper medications?
Therefore the answer is not a sterilizer but consciencious husbandry by the hobbyist. Which in Hillbilly means- One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch or one rotten potato can make your whole house stink. Do not put a sick animal in your display tank.... And if you buy one that turns out to be sick keep it in a QT so the rest of your livestock does'nt get sick and you can treat the ill animal.
Now have some fun trying to persuade me into your UV cult
However, I do not believe in UV sterilizers. I used one for a couple years did not see any real use for it so I got rid of it. I believe they might be a minimally useful in controling nuisance algaes but besides this I think they are a waste of money. I know everyone is now collecting stones to throw at me but that is ok because I am in my backyard vintage 1952 nuclear fall out shelter and not afraid of any of you UV disciples.
Before the stones start to fly let me explain why I do not use them.
1. They kill almost any microscopic critters that flow through their light. This means bad plus good. And you guys wonder why your tanks lack mini-stars, copeopods, and mysis.
2. I can control nuisance algaes in a more natural way. Use clean water, do not over feed, use macros to deprive nuisance algaes of nutrition.
And a little on the technological side keep my pH up and skim the tank -bam not much algae.
3. I have never seen a UV sterilizer alone be able to rid a tank of ick or other parasites once they have been severely introduced. Which is the way it happens, somebody who does not have a QT dumps an unacclimated fish into a tank and then they can watch the opening series of Stephen King's "The Stand" happen right before their eyes.
4. One last thing how many of you go to the tanning salon when you have an illness? Or do you have it treated with proper medications?
Therefore the answer is not a sterilizer but consciencious husbandry by the hobbyist. Which in Hillbilly means- One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch or one rotten potato can make your whole house stink. Do not put a sick animal in your display tank.... And if you buy one that turns out to be sick keep it in a QT so the rest of your livestock does'nt get sick and you can treat the ill animal.
Now have some fun trying to persuade me into your UV cult
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WVfishguy
New member
"I have never seen a UV sterilizer alone be able to rid a tank of ick or other parasites once they have been severely introduced." (Severely introduced? What the does that mean? Do you mean a severe infection?)
Phil; re-read my post. I NEVER said to us a UV on a display, just on the QT
This is what I mean by lack of experience. UV will kill ectoparasites, the most common cause of disease in marine systems. You need to kill these critters in the Q/T tank. That's the whole point!
BTW - I never mentioned "nuisance algaes." Where did that come from? If you have "nuisance algaes" then use a Rabbitfish or a Tang. (BTW- Algae is already a plural noun, no need to add an "s".)
I don't use UV's on displays. I use refugiums an ALL the tanks I set up. UV would completely negate the refugiums.
OK, young man, your assignment is to research ectoparasites and their life cycles. You are VERY CLOSE to detention! Be warned !
Phil; re-read my post. I NEVER said to us a UV on a display, just on the QT
This is what I mean by lack of experience. UV will kill ectoparasites, the most common cause of disease in marine systems. You need to kill these critters in the Q/T tank. That's the whole point!
BTW - I never mentioned "nuisance algaes." Where did that come from? If you have "nuisance algaes" then use a Rabbitfish or a Tang. (BTW- Algae is already a plural noun, no need to add an "s".)
I don't use UV's on displays. I use refugiums an ALL the tanks I set up. UV would completely negate the refugiums.
OK, young man, your assignment is to research ectoparasites and their life cycles. You are VERY CLOSE to detention! Be warned !
firefish2020
New member
Ehhh you guys do what you want, If I had a LFS or a maintenance service I would have a bank of QT tanks, but I still stand by what I said about the casual hobbyist. I've seen ich in animals that were QTd for a month and seen it in animals not Qtd IMO it happens and can be traced back to handlers. I wont comment on Phills views of UVs I think if it works for you so be it if it doesn't so be that as well. They work for me and others though, I use and recommend them and that's all I'll say on the matter of UVs. Phil don't stay in your shelter too long, this looks like a good one.
LOL No harm
LOL No harm
phljess
New member
-You did not say it.
As far as ectoparasites go there are numerous means to irridicate these creatures and I would hypothosize you are mainly referring to cryptocaryon irritans but I may be wrong. This is why I am not advocating the use of UV when you can break their life cycles by using medications to cure the problem. After treatment you can take the QT down until you are ready to introduce a new animal. During these down times you would have no need for a sterilizer and it would just sit around the house collecting dust. Or you could keep a QT up and running for no reason so you could expend your money on an empty tank with a useless UV light.
If you own many tanks or a store, sterilizers may be cost effective but for a hobbyist, I would believe medications would be more than suffice.
BTW, I see numerous threads where people believe a UV sterilizer will "cure" almost any disease. (If you believe this please stop by my house so I can sell you some snake oil.) This is the reason I had to say something about them. I personally think they are a farce and can be much more damaging than good if used improperly.
You are correct about the improper use of the word algae, I will ask Webster for some forgiveness for butchering the English language and cut a few hours out of my week for extra tutoring from an English teacher. What are your thoughts on fish/ fishes?
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MattG
Premium Member
Using a quarantine tank is always a good idea. To be completely honest if I buy a damsel or something very hardy for personal use I don't quarantine (I should I just get lazy and it WILL bite me in the rear one time.) For those expensive delicate fish I just wait until fishguy gets in the fish I want and buy it out of his quarantine tank. 
A quarantine tank should be LESS stressful then the main tank because the main tank is usually full of other fish. A quarantine tank ideally should be setup with liverock/sand/hiding spots/etc. A simple powerfilter will sufice along with maybe a little extra watermovement.
A quarantine tank is NOT a hospital tank. I think a lot of people confuse the two. A quarantine tank is just a holding tank where the new fish can easily be observed for signs of stress and disease. Also it allows a new addition time to recoup from the stress of handling and transport. By this I don't mean from the LFS to your house but the much longer journey that you never see. A quarantine tank also allows a fish easy access to food which can be a real problem if its housed with aggressive eaters.
For those that don't keep a quarantine tank setup all the time keep a sponge in your sump or tank that can be moved to the quarantine tank when needed for biological filtration.
As far as UV I think its main benefit is clarity of the water. This can be accomplished through other means though which leaves no real reason to run one in a marine tank IMO.
Also the majority of people have no clue how big of an UV is needed to keep parasites in check. I see people all the time run dinky little UV's and claim it irradicates ich. Most units are rated for killing algae not parasites.
A quarantine tank should be LESS stressful then the main tank because the main tank is usually full of other fish. A quarantine tank ideally should be setup with liverock/sand/hiding spots/etc. A simple powerfilter will sufice along with maybe a little extra watermovement.
A quarantine tank is NOT a hospital tank. I think a lot of people confuse the two. A quarantine tank is just a holding tank where the new fish can easily be observed for signs of stress and disease. Also it allows a new addition time to recoup from the stress of handling and transport. By this I don't mean from the LFS to your house but the much longer journey that you never see. A quarantine tank also allows a fish easy access to food which can be a real problem if its housed with aggressive eaters.
For those that don't keep a quarantine tank setup all the time keep a sponge in your sump or tank that can be moved to the quarantine tank when needed for biological filtration.
As far as UV I think its main benefit is clarity of the water. This can be accomplished through other means though which leaves no real reason to run one in a marine tank IMO.
Also the majority of people have no clue how big of an UV is needed to keep parasites in check. I see people all the time run dinky little UV's and claim it irradicates ich. Most units are rated for killing algae not parasites.
firefish2020
New member
You see numerous threads because if they are used correctly they can not be beat, I can tell you that just about everyone that I have ever recommended one of these to comes back with the same story of how it worked when nothing else would. I put more faith in the results I personally see rather than the alleged results and theories posted on forums by so called experts.
Again you guys go do whatever you want and best of luck, the Dr is out till further notice.
Augh. Don't take it personal Ron. Threads like this are interesting. I'm surprised there's not more of them, with all the differing opinions and conflicting information that's out there on this hobby.
My opinion about the QT tank is there's been too many times that my extra tank has been useful. Let's call it an ER tank. Like the time something attacked my firefish and ate her eye out. She was in shock, laying in the front of the tank. I scooped her out and put her in the ER tank. That was probably 4 years ago and she still lives today in the display tank. And the time that my PJ Cardinal pair "broke up" and got violent. Battered spouse saved in the QT tank. A wrasse fight found my greenbird wrasse beat all to Hell; he mended in the QT tank and was later returned to display (minus one lunar wrasse). Just the other day, jmccown (Jason) came to get my Sailfin Tang. He didn't have to wait while I caught the fish because I was able to catch him and put him in QT until he got there. Why not keep one? Especially when you don't have 24/7 access to a LFS.
My opinion about the QT tank is there's been too many times that my extra tank has been useful. Let's call it an ER tank. Like the time something attacked my firefish and ate her eye out. She was in shock, laying in the front of the tank. I scooped her out and put her in the ER tank. That was probably 4 years ago and she still lives today in the display tank. And the time that my PJ Cardinal pair "broke up" and got violent. Battered spouse saved in the QT tank. A wrasse fight found my greenbird wrasse beat all to Hell; he mended in the QT tank and was later returned to display (minus one lunar wrasse). Just the other day, jmccown (Jason) came to get my Sailfin Tang. He didn't have to wait while I caught the fish because I was able to catch him and put him in QT until he got there. Why not keep one? Especially when you don't have 24/7 access to a LFS.
My goal is to set up a disease-free display tank. If the disease has no way of entering the tank (meaning you QT the fish for 6 weeks so that it has nothing to feed on), then the display remains healthy and can thrive. Like Joy is saying, they serve many purposes other than just hospital or QT.
WVfishguy
New member
Great posts all! See what we can can accomplish if nobody takes things personally?
I have to second joyski58's comments about extra tanks. They are worth their weight in gold.
And as usual, Matt is the voice of reason. I didn't think of it, but he's right; many people mistake a hospital tank for a quarantine tank.
Actually, if you use a powerful UV, a quarantine tank can also kill parasites, thus eliminating many diseases. That's what I do now.
Years ago, I thought UV was just for suspended algae control. I now prefer UV to medications because meds are such a pain. You have to dose the tank, measure the dosage in the water (i.e. copper test kits) , yatta-yatta-yatta. After using meds for more than 40 years, I'm sick of them (no pun intended). And many strong meds (like Rid-Ich or other formalin-based products) can cause a lot of damage to an already weakened animal. I've seen this. But I've never seen fish harmed with UV.
Here's why a properly-sized UV works: The vast majority of aquarium cooties (like Cryptocaryon, Costia, Amyloodinium, flukes, ich, etc.) can only infect fish through their free-swimming stages. If you use a large-enough UV, the free-swimmers will be killed. That's the secret - kill the free-swimming stage. That's also how meds work. Meds are almost always ineffective on encysted parasites.
I'm currently using UV on: My 38 gal. QT (which has eliminated a Cryptocaryon outbreak); on a customer's freshwater tank (to eliminate Costia, which it has) and on two other tanks for algae control (again, with great success.) I also recently used UV to clean out an outbreak of an unknown pathogen which wiped out a 125 salt tank. The fish in it now shows no sign of disease, so I consider that a success.
Given my personal successes with UV, how can I not promote its use?
FOR THE RECORD:
If they are swimming in the water, the plural term is "fishes." If there is a pile of fish on land, flopping around, or dead, the plural is "fish."
(Is there anything more annoying than an English major?)
I have to second joyski58's comments about extra tanks. They are worth their weight in gold.
And as usual, Matt is the voice of reason. I didn't think of it, but he's right; many people mistake a hospital tank for a quarantine tank.
Actually, if you use a powerful UV, a quarantine tank can also kill parasites, thus eliminating many diseases. That's what I do now.
Years ago, I thought UV was just for suspended algae control. I now prefer UV to medications because meds are such a pain. You have to dose the tank, measure the dosage in the water (i.e. copper test kits) , yatta-yatta-yatta. After using meds for more than 40 years, I'm sick of them (no pun intended). And many strong meds (like Rid-Ich or other formalin-based products) can cause a lot of damage to an already weakened animal. I've seen this. But I've never seen fish harmed with UV.
Here's why a properly-sized UV works: The vast majority of aquarium cooties (like Cryptocaryon, Costia, Amyloodinium, flukes, ich, etc.) can only infect fish through their free-swimming stages. If you use a large-enough UV, the free-swimmers will be killed. That's the secret - kill the free-swimming stage. That's also how meds work. Meds are almost always ineffective on encysted parasites.
I'm currently using UV on: My 38 gal. QT (which has eliminated a Cryptocaryon outbreak); on a customer's freshwater tank (to eliminate Costia, which it has) and on two other tanks for algae control (again, with great success.) I also recently used UV to clean out an outbreak of an unknown pathogen which wiped out a 125 salt tank. The fish in it now shows no sign of disease, so I consider that a success.
Given my personal successes with UV, how can I not promote its use?
FOR THE RECORD:
If they are swimming in the water, the plural term is "fishes." If there is a pile of fish on land, flopping around, or dead, the plural is "fish."
(Is there anything more annoying than an English major?)
coralreefer
No Pistons
I imagine that's one reason Phil's never seen one "cure" a disease outbreak. I know I'd need an 80w HO unit to for parasite control on a tank my size.
I've never quite understood people's reasons for drip acclimating a fish purchased locally.
Joyce we use to have more threads like this and I miss them, especially the DSB debate Matt and I had with Curt a couple years ago
fwiw I agree with Matt's take on a QT tank.
phljess
New member
"I imagine that's one reason Phil's never seen one "cure" a disease outbreak. I know I'd need an 80w HO unit to for parasite control on a tank my size."
I seriously do not believe they will cure fish that have severe infections. However, they may stop the infection from spreading to other fish. But if you watch how you are stocking your tank this should not be a problem.
I seriously do not believe they will cure fish that have severe infections. However, they may stop the infection from spreading to other fish. But if you watch how you are stocking your tank this should not be a problem.
WVfishguy
New member
Actually, I currently have a Rabbitfish which had ich pretty bad. After about two weeks, it's now cured. I used no meds, just put it in a quarantine tank with UV.
Admittedly, Rabbits are tough critters.
UV and meds seem to do the same thing, just in different ways. Both kill free-swimming parasites. The more I think about it, the less I like chemicals and the more I like UV. But I would not run UV on my display tanks with inverts UNLESS there was a disease outbreak. Even then I'd stop after the disease was gone.
I'd like to hear from people who use ozone. I don't know squat about that.
Admittedly, Rabbits are tough critters.
UV and meds seem to do the same thing, just in different ways. Both kill free-swimming parasites. The more I think about it, the less I like chemicals and the more I like UV. But I would not run UV on my display tanks with inverts UNLESS there was a disease outbreak. Even then I'd stop after the disease was gone.
I'd like to hear from people who use ozone. I don't know squat about that.
