Help SPS corals dying slowly

[ostrow]

I will admit up front, I did not read all 7 pages. I did see you moved a month ago. That of course can be hard on corals. Probably a new cycle.

You replaced sand. Did you have a dsb in the old tank? Did you say 3 yrs?

I am experiencing analogous problems of acros dying and growing back (mostly) then dying again. No water test indicates any issue and levels hold stable. I do have some cyano, that could be from the die-off though, hard to say for sure. But nothing seems to help -- including leaving well enough alone. Sometimes, it's just frustrating.

I wonder about chloramines. I have not tested that but as you test 0 I suspect I will too. Good luck!

 

[bertoni]

[flamealert]

All right, let's keep the personal attacks out of this thread. I have removed some posts. I don't want to have to remove more. This person is having some serious problems with his tank, and it'd be nice to try to solve it.

Since he's stopped the NoPOx for a couple of months, I would guess that it had nothing to do with the coral problems. Lots of people have dosed NoPOx without issues, so that's not so surprising. I agree, though, that some people's tanks seem to have problems with carbon dosing. For me, two months without carbon is enough to demonstrate that there's some other issue here.

 

[bertoni]

Tom if Oxygen has nothing to do with PH then why people connecting air line from outside to the skimmer to rise the PH?

The purpose is to bring air with less carbon dioxide content into the system. Carbon dioxide drives the pH downward, but oxygen doesn't have any effect in our systems. It's possible, and common, for a tank to have a depressed pH along with oxygen at full saturation. As far as I could tell from my testing, my tanks were all in that regime. Salifert makes (or made) an oxygen test kit, if you're interested in some experimentation.

 

[Staisman]

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All right, let's keep the personal attacks out of this thread. I have removed some posts. I don't want to have to remove more. This person is having some serious problems with his tank, and it'd be nice to try to solve it.

Since he's stopped the NoPOx for a couple of months, I would guess that it had nothing to do with the coral problems. Lots of people have dosed NoPOx without issues, so that's not so surprising. I agree, though, that some people's tanks seem to have problems with carbon dosing. For me, two months without carbon is enough to demonstrate that there's some other issue here.

Thank you.

Please read my summary of what I have done already.

I am still trying to bring my salinity down to 1.026, if this won't help then I have to look elsewhere.

1. I stopped dosing Nopox.
2. I switched salts from RedSea Pro to Blue Bucket RedSea.
3. I only dose Alk and Ca right now on the doser. (two parts from BRS. CALCIUM CHLORIDE and SODIUM BICARBONATE )
4. I replaced 100% of the water in the move and replaced sand. So there is nothing laying and dying in my tank.
5. I replaced my refractometer to digital. So now no more calibration solution needed.
6. I took everything extra from a water and inspected my equipment for stray voltage and found some bad pump in my skimmer.
7. Replaced Skimmer.
8. I replaced DT and Sump.
9. I fixed NO3 issue, now it stays at 5 ppm(redsea test). and PO4 at 0.04-0.06 ppm (hanna).

This issue is going on for half a year already. At this pint I don't think the problem with water quality.

 

[Staisman]

The purpose is to bring air with less carbon dioxide content into the system. Carbon dioxide drives the pH downward, but oxygen doesn't have any effect in our systems. It's possible, and common, for a tank to have a depressed pH along with oxygen at full saturation. As far as I could tell from my testing, my tanks were all in that regime. Salifert makes (or made) an oxygen test kit, if you're interested in some experimentation.

Ok got it, I thought CO2 decreases PH and Oxygen increases.

 

[tmz]

As noted folks bring in fresh air or even use CO2 scrubbers to reduce the amount of CO2 in the air that enters the tank.
CO2 hydrolizes in water and adds H+(CO2 +H2O---->CO3 + 2H)
which lowers pH. pH is not affected by the O2 content of the incoming air or the oxygen level in the water.

 

[tmz]

Do corals care about salinity lvl if alk, Ca and Mg are in the normal range?

Let say if you keep your water at 1.020 but dosing those three elements to keep at normal lvls will corals care?

Missed this before.

Yes they care . They can't osmoregulate like fish can;their internal sg is dependent to a large extent on the water around them. Fish can either concentrate salts in their urine and urinate less than they drink or vice versa to maintain a constant internal sg,around 1.008; corals and invertebrates can't . When the internal sg is off ,the internal chemistry is off and the organs don't function.

At external sg higher than the necessary internal sg, fluids flow out interrupting internal osmosis. With external sg lower than internal sq .fluids flow in with a similar disruption. The range of adaptation may vary from one specific non osmoregulating animal to the next but overall an sg of 1.026 will do for all slatwater animals.


Further, the salt mix adds many major ,minor and trace elements not just calcium alkalinity and magensium; posaium, chloide, sodium , iron and a myriad of others.

 

[tmz]

Those steps look good.

It's not hard to drop the sg by drawing out some salt water and replacing it with ro/di. Where is it now?

 

[djbon]

Have you thought about air contamination?. I had mysterious inverts dying and coral issues due to air pollutant before.

 

[bertoni]

I haven't been able to come up with any ideas on how to proceed. This kind of problem can be extremely difficult to solve. I remember one person who trace a problem back to a bad batch of artificial live rock. I don't know how he managed.

I might try keeping a PolyFilter in the system long-term. I'm not sure what turning white means, but that might be a hint. On the other hand, it might be a coincidence.

 

[Staisman]

Those steps look good.

It's not hard to drop the sg by drawing out some salt water and replacing it with ro/di. Where is it now?

I dropped Salinity back to 1.026, should I keep it there or drop it to 1.025?

 

[Staisman]

I haven't been able to come up with any ideas on how to proceed. This kind of problem can be extremely difficult to solve. I remember one person who trace a problem back to a bad batch of artificial live rock. I don't know how he managed.

I might try keeping a PolyFilter in the system long-term. I'm not sure what turning white means, but that might be a hint. On the other hand, it might be a coincidence.

By turning white I meant it didn't change color.

I hope that Salinity caused all my problems. It makes sense what Tom said, I was using that single bottle of calibration solution for past 2 years, and it was probably going off little by little without my notice until levels got very high and corals start dying.
I had no clue that simple of the salt water could go bad. So i never had doubts about my salinity levels since I calibrate my refractometer every time before use.

 

[Staisman]

Have you thought about air contamination?. I had mysterious inverts dying and coral issues due to air pollutant before.

I moved from one house to another so air pollution is not an option.

 

[bertoni]

By turning white I meant it didn't change color.

Oh, well, there goes that idea down in flames. Maybe the SG excursions were the source of the problem. If so, I'd expect the corals to recover in a couple of months or so, provided that they are not too damaged currently.

 

[djbon]

I moved from one house to another so air pollution is not an option.

I have experienced an air borne chemicals fumes (weed killer and mosquito fumigation) from nearby premise (roughly 150 meters away from my house) killing my tank inhabitants (mostly inverts and some sensitive corals). I installed an activated charcoal filter on my skimmer air intake hose, 40% WC and all is fine now.

Household cleaning agent & air freshener usage might find their way into your tank via skimmer. It might not be the culprit here but I think adding a filter is good as a precautionary measure.

Skimmer manufacturer should supply activated carbon filter as standard package. The amount of air being pushed into the skimmer is enormous.

 

[Staisman]

I have experienced an air borne chemicals fumes (weed killer and mosquito fumigation) from nearby premise (roughly 150 meters away from my house) killing my tank inhabitants (mostly inverts and some sensitive corals). I installed an activated charcoal filter on my skimmer air intake hose, 40% WC and all is fine now.

Household cleaning agent & air freshener usage might find their way into your tank via skimmer. It might not be the culprit here but I think adding a filter is good as a precautionary measure.

Skimmer manufacturer should supply activated carbon filter as standard package. The amount of air being pushed into the skimmer is enormous.

Interesting

 

[djbon]

Interesting

First casualties were snails. It didn't kill them straight away, their mobility gradually affected, then they stop moving and eating and eventually died. I introduced new snails, drip acclimate and all out of sudden they stop moving. I made a small batch SW, they immediately recovers. Strange as it may sound, but that was exactly triggered my curiosity. My LFS recommends WC (i don't normally do), installed DIY charcoal filter and everything returns to normal.

 

[Staisman]

UPDATE: After I stabilized my salinity my corals stopped dying but overall condition is still bad. It looks like they are not recovering Half the size or barely open. Maybe the damage was too severe and now it's too late?

 

[bertoni]

How long has the salinity been stable? A couple of months should be enough to see some recovery, I'd hope.

 

[Staisman]

How long has the salinity been stable? A couple of months should be enough to see some recovery, I'd hope.

Last i reported on 07/13/2017, 03:32 PM that my salinity was back to 1.026. It has been the same since then.