intermision
New member
I didn't mean to take it personally, but it seems like to many people are eager to blame the LFS.
HELP! They're dying!
- Thread starter mdignard
- Start date
I didn't mean to take it personally, but it seems like to many people are eager to blame the LFS.
Harley-J
New member
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2004/fish.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinomuraena
especially read the aquarium part...
"Notoriously difficult for keeping in captivity, Ribbon Eels may be best seen in their natural habitats" seems to be the general thoughts on almost every site...I personally don't know...I don't have any experience with them...but if it were me, I would call your LFS, while it is still alive..and ask if you can trade it in for more suitable tank mate for your percula...Its a win win...you get a chance to stop worrying about its death and the percula can do the same...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinomuraena
especially read the aquarium part...
"Notoriously difficult for keeping in captivity, Ribbon Eels may be best seen in their natural habitats" seems to be the general thoughts on almost every site...I personally don't know...I don't have any experience with them...but if it were me, I would call your LFS, while it is still alive..and ask if you can trade it in for more suitable tank mate for your percula...Its a win win...you get a chance to stop worrying about its death and the percula can do the same...
77-81 F is good, but no more than a 2 degree swing/day.
Any amount of light is OK for fish (as long as DE MH are covered),
no light for the first few hours will help w/ stress--3 x 250w MH is normal--(I am going to do 3 x 400w when I move).
1.025-7 sg for inverts and fish(fish only will do well in 1.020 sg.)
Keeping parameters stable is the key--temp, salinity, Ca, alkalinity, magnesium.
I would keep doing what ever it takes to keep these 2 fish alive---after a month, they will be well acclimated and probably not a problem--except feeding the eel could be a pain--I don't know.
This kind of incident has happened to probably 90% of all aquarists--new tank syndrome, inexperience.
Don't let it get you down, you can keep just about anything in a 180g w/ that much light.
Any amount of light is OK for fish (as long as DE MH are covered),
no light for the first few hours will help w/ stress--3 x 250w MH is normal--(I am going to do 3 x 400w when I move).
1.025-7 sg for inverts and fish(fish only will do well in 1.020 sg.)
Keeping parameters stable is the key--temp, salinity, Ca, alkalinity, magnesium.
I would keep doing what ever it takes to keep these 2 fish alive---after a month, they will be well acclimated and probably not a problem--except feeding the eel could be a pain--I don't know.
This kind of incident has happened to probably 90% of all aquarists--new tank syndrome, inexperience.
Don't let it get you down, you can keep just about anything in a 180g w/ that much light.
spike78
New member
You haven't said how you acclimated your livestock before adding them to the tank. Did you just dump them in?
You mentioned that you asked about the temp of the LFS tanks. Did you also ask about the salinity? Often stores will keep their tanks under hypo. If you drop a fish that has been in hypo for 3 weeks at 1.017 or so into a new tank at 1.025, you are going to mess them up.
You mentioned that you asked about the temp of the LFS tanks. Did you also ask about the salinity? Often stores will keep their tanks under hypo. If you drop a fish that has been in hypo for 3 weeks at 1.017 or so into a new tank at 1.025, you are going to mess them up.
MrSpiffy
Premium Member
I just got a dwarf lionfish from my LFS and was VERY happy I tested the salinity of the water in the bag before dumping him in my quarantine tank. The LFS said that they keep the tank where the lion was around 1.024 or so. But when I tested it with my refractometer it said 1.030. My QT was at 1.022. Had I not tested it, that little guy might've been toast! But I brought the salinity up a bit to 1.028 and will start bringing him back down to 1.025. That salinity thing might have been the problem.
Going to a lower salinity isn't nearly as much of a problem as going up. But it can still cause some issues. If your tank was at a significantly lower/higher salinity than the LFS's tanks, that could've caused osmotic shock. I wouldn't try to acclimate a fish that's more than 0.002 above or below the tank I'm putting him into. I was able to adjust the salinity in QT before putting him in there.
Going to a lower salinity isn't nearly as much of a problem as going up. But it can still cause some issues. If your tank was at a significantly lower/higher salinity than the LFS's tanks, that could've caused osmotic shock. I wouldn't try to acclimate a fish that's more than 0.002 above or below the tank I'm putting him into. I was able to adjust the salinity in QT before putting him in there.
I don`t see that he has ever stated how long the tank was up before fish- but the detective work of "a lawnmower blenny came in on the rock" and "the benny was fine for a week before I added more stuff" says tank was in second week of cycle at best. I could see throwing a couple damsels into that- but nothing else.
Harley-J
New member
mdignard,
Bingo...letting them float and releasing is not acclimation,..nanodude posted a really great way to acclimate..I personally use a turkey baster..
couple of things also, is the fact that NEVER ever let the LFS water enter you tank...Its just good practice..
also if you are not going to QT then consider at least a dip before putting them in your tank...some people say that it causes to much stress, but I would rather stress one and be sure, than stress ALL my tank inhabitants with an outbreak...
Bingo...letting them float and releasing is not acclimation,..nanodude posted a really great way to acclimate..I personally use a turkey baster..
couple of things also, is the fact that NEVER ever let the LFS water enter you tank...Its just good practice..
also if you are not going to QT then consider at least a dip before putting them in your tank...some people say that it causes to much stress, but I would rather stress one and be sure, than stress ALL my tank inhabitants with an outbreak...
Swanwillow
goby girl
what most of us want to know...
ON WHAT DATE DID YOU SET UP THE TANK!!!
maybe I should underline that. Sorry, but this is something we NEED to know to help you. If it was a week, your still going to be going through cycles even though the water tested out 'okay'
and 'okay' is relative. I can keep fish in ammonia, but it will kill them in small amounts. Same with nitrates-you can keep them in 60 ppm, but they aren't doing well.
ON WHAT DATE DID YOU SET UP THE TANK!!!
maybe I should underline that. Sorry, but this is something we NEED to know to help you. If it was a week, your still going to be going through cycles even though the water tested out 'okay'
and 'okay' is relative. I can keep fish in ammonia, but it will kill them in small amounts. Same with nitrates-you can keep them in 60 ppm, but they aren't doing well.
HoopsGuru
In Memoriam
Thanks for the extra info. Likely, we will not be able to say with absolute accuracy what killed the livestock. My guesses are the same as others, with the first one being that acclimating for temp only is a problem (and an easy one to fix for the future) that likely contributed to the widespread death among various livestock. With 240g of total water volume, I would put ammonia/nitrites on a less likely scale, although I would recommend you get test kits with a more distinct low end of the scale to know whether you are surely at 0ppm or not. With good live rock, it is possible that your tank was cycled, although is still likely an unstable environment as various processes establish themselves (not limited to the nitrogen cycle).
Suggestions for the future would be to drip acclimate all new arrivals matching temperature, PH, and salinity....and with your substantial investment already take a look at the extra system of having a quarantine tank. This provides a safe area to get new fish used to tank life, and makes it a heck of a lot easier to treat disease/parasites that may not show up for a few days after purchase without having to try to capture them in a 180g tank.
HoopsGuru
In Memoriam
With 240g of water, I don't believe ammonia would have built up that quickly with your small bioload unlessly you GROSSLY overfed trying to get the new livestock to eat. With your initial water tests verified by the LFS, I just don't see it as the culprit for the timeframe of the deaths. Follow up with more ammonia and nitrite levels to be sure, doesn't have to be Salifert but anything with 0ppm as the base would be much better.
I did another water test last night. Ammonia and nitrite at 0. Salinity was at 1.023 and temperature was 77. I called the store, and they let me bring the Ribbon Eel back. I told them that he was not eating, and I didn't want him to die. They are going to work with him and see if they can get him to eat. If so, then they will give me the option of taking him back or giving me credit towards something else. I bought a quarantine tank and 24 snails.
Swanwillow
goby girl
GREAT news, thanks for listening to us! yeah, we can get grumbly at times, but the LFS should know that ribbon eels are notoriously hard to get eating in the first place.
If, in a few weeks, you decide to take him in, make sure to WATCH him eat, and do some research on him in the meantime.
If, in a few weeks, you decide to take him in, make sure to WATCH him eat, and do some research on him in the meantime.
