Help with Disease in LFS

[discocarp]

Not a single LFS in my area quarantines fish, certainly not "correctly". Even if they did I would never trust their quarantine. There is no way they're observing all these fish for 6-8 weeks, in a completely isolated water supply from each other. I'll stick with my own QT and never trusting anything from anyone.

 

[Nina51]

If a LFS QT or not is not important to me. I do not trust that job to anyone but myself, if disease gets introduced into my DT that is on me. If the store has active and decent looking fish then home they go and into my QT protocol.

Personally I do not believe the majority of shops do a correct QT. Maybe enough to say they do. I guess that is just the cynic in me.

totally agree, tony. even fish i get from DD go through ttm and a month of observation. i don't trust anybody to do qt for me.

 

[snorvich]

I doubt that

As do I. It is financially infeasible to properly quarantine fish at the LFS.

 

[snorvich]

Calling experts:

What is the best way to reduce disease in a commercial setup?


Is a sufficiently sized UV sterilizer and keeping water quality pristine the only way to go to reduce the outbreaks?

UV is effective to a large degree (assuming proper sizing and flow) to keep parasites from spreading between tanks which share water. (Remember to clean the UV of dirt and replace the bulb periodically). It is not effective at preventing parasites for a single tank because getting all water to flow by the UV is infeasible. Most stores that are reputable do not keep fish in their invert/coral systems.

 

[jasonb87]

Our LFS quarantines every incoming fish for a minimum of two weeks. And does copper treatment.

 

[JackandJill]

UV is effective to a large degree (assuming proper sizing and flow) to keep parasites from spreading between tanks which share water. (Remember to clean the UV of dirt and replace the bulb periodically). It is not effective at preventing parasites for a single tank because getting all water to flow by the UV is infeasible. Most stores that are reputable do not keep fish in their invert/coral systems.

Thank you for responding, Snorvich.

I have read the stickies regarding parasites but one thing I still wonder about is the attachment rate. If a store is open for a year and receives 20 fish per week it is likely to assume by sheer probability that the fish systems will have many parasites including ich, brook, etc.

So does that mean most fish leaving that system will have been infected. Because wouldn't that mean every fish store in the world sends out fish infected with parasites with little variation?

 

[Tiberione]

Thank you for responding, Snorvich.

I have read the stickies regarding parasites but one thing I still wonder about is the attachment rate. If a store is open for a year and receives 20 fish per week it is likely to assume by sheer probability that the fish systems will have many parasites including ich, brook, etc.

So does that mean most fish leaving that system will have been infected. Because wouldn't that mean every fish store in the world sends out fish infected with parasites with little variation?

If you wont qt then why not just elevate copper levels and put a dewormer into your fishes diet.. If you cant stop them from having it before it goes in your store tank then you can't really stop other fishes from getting it.. Just do your best on the above..

 

[JackandJill]

If you wont qt then why not just elevate copper levels and put a dewormer into your fishes diet.. If you cant stop them from having it before it goes in your store tank then you can't really stop other fishes from getting it.. Just do your best on the above..

Because "elevated" copper levels do nothing but mask the parasite and stress the fish.

 

[pktech]

This is an interesting thread! Are you planning on opening the store or do you already have fish for sale? Depending on the weekly amount, maybe you can tank transfer them? Some if not all? Where are you located?

 

[JackandJill]

This is an interesting thread! Are you planning on opening the store or do you already have fish for sale? Depending on the weekly amount, maybe you can tank transfer them? Some if not all? Where are you located?

I am already opened. Tank transfer would become impossibly expensive with having to drain each tank every time the fish are switched.

I am located in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

 

[pktech]

I am already opened. Tank transfer would become impossibly expensive with having to drain each tank every time the fish are switched.

I am located in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Cool & best of luck to you! And yes, I agree it could get expensive for you. I was thinking out loud. Id like to know what protocol you decide on in the future.

 

[gone fishin]

Just my thoughts but I believe it is wishful thinking that a LFS would QT all the fish that come and go through their shop. I have seen many threads from hobbyist that come up with many excuses to not QT one fish in their possession. The main excuses are no space for a QT or the cost to set one up.

Along the same line of thought there have been many threads about my tank has ich. They start with I don't understand why, my LFS QT's everything.

Ultimately it is up to each of us to Care for our livestock once in our possession and that should include our own personal QT regimen.

 

[CHSUB]

i worked at a LFS in my youth, and i can tell you we never QT...seems impossible. i have also been to the largest wholesaler on the East Coast (All Sea, in Miami) during shipments and they just dump the dead fish because about 25% arrive DOA!!

 

[turkeyty]

I feel that if more lfs holding tanks had more circulation they would see less issues with disease.... This is just an unscientific observation of mine. Centralized filtration is what most stores utilize and is a very good way to maintain water stability and quality. However, most utilize only the large central pump to provide the circulation also... I believe that if each holding tank had its own separate pump to maintain the circulation needs and not rely solely on filtration pump, less issues would be seen on fish... Of course, there are other factors involved... This is also one of the reasons most home quarantine systems aren't adequate; a small tank with heater, minimum filtration and circulation... Just my two ��

Ty

 

[phillrodrigo]

It really doesn't seem to feasible to qt fish for a lfs. Your qt system would have to be massive. If 4 weeks of qt is what is needed then you would have to be able to keep 4x the amount of fish in qt to rotate them from qt to sales. If a week worked I could see that being possible. The 1 week is out for sale the second is in qt then 7 days later bring the others out for sale and qt new ones. Since most will think 7 days isn't worth doing I can see why most dont

 

[snorvich]

Because "elevated" copper levels do nothing but mask the parasite and stress the fish.

Several things here: maintaining a specific copper level with a huge system and multiple tanks is an effort in futility. If the level of copper is less than therapeutic, it will mask, ich, velvet, brook, and possibly uronema. If you go too high, the level of copper is bad for the fish.

 

[ca1ore]

Although many may 'say' they do, or even believe that they do, no LFS I have ever patronized is either able or willing to QT a fish in a way that I would consider adequate for me to skip my own QT process - therefore, the whole discussion strikes me as moot. In point of fact, I would actually prefer to minimize the amount of time any fish I would buy spends at the LFS - I figure it's just going to have greater opportunity to pick up disease the longer it languishes at the store.

Further, while disease prevention is the most obvious reason to QT, getting a fish eating well and better prepared to fed off aggressors when first introduced to the display is an under appreciated benefit - I'd not frankly trust my LFS to do this either.

 

[.Chris.]

Because "elevated" copper levels do nothing but mask the parasite and stress the fish.

While I agree with you, the option is to mask the parasite, or let it run rampant and kill the fish.

Believe me when I say that we went from having 50% or higher mortality over the course of having an order in our store (turnover time for all fish on any particular order is probably about six weeks), to under 15%.

So do I want to mask the issues? Hell no, but I also want the fish to be alive and ready to be brought home to someone's tank.

So I'm going to stress the fish out every time if it means keeping it alive.

 

[.Chris.]

Several things here: maintaining a specific copper level with a huge system and multiple tanks is an effort in futility. If the level of copper is less than therapeutic, it will mask, ich, velvet, brook, and possibly uronema. If you go too high, the level of copper is bad for the fish.

I disagree with you strongly on the futility of maintaining a specific level of copper. We have maintained a level of .55 mg/L +/- .03 mg/L for almost a year now, and our system is north of 3000g, with about 120 tanks. Our daily tasks include check/dose copper levels in the system.

 

[ironwill723]

I disagree with you strongly on the futility of maintaining a specific level of copper. We have maintained a level of .55 mg/L +/- .03 mg/L for almost a year now, and our system is north of 3000g, with about 120 tanks. Our daily tasks include check/dose copper levels in the system.

I agree with this as well. At my shop we maintain our 1500g fish system at a .15 level with an ionic copper sulfate mix solution using a Lamotte Copper Colorimeter. We have no issues with disease outbreaks and our customers are always happy with our fish and their health once in their displays.