help with dispar anthias.

[04GT35STi]

I have three dispar anthias in my 75 gallon tank and i came home to all of them having bites out of their tails, and the smallest missing almost the entire lower portion of his tail. I just added a midas blenny on saturday, could he be the culprit? They have been in there about a month with no problems before this. The other fish are:

2x occelaris
Purple firefish
yasha goby
Pygmy cherub angel

Thanks for the help.

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

Could be. hard to say. My Midas Blenny has gone after a wrasse once or twice with a little nip or 2. But no real connection or damage. Usually with enough space, the midas does not get too quarrelsome. But it is possible. (When cramped they can be territorial)
But otherwise, usually not too much.

How long has Mr. Midas been in there? Established for while? (EDIT: sorry. I see you said since last Saturday) Still, not easy to tell for sure until you witness behavior yourself. Possible though. How do the Dispar act? Eating well? Skiddish at all? They can become targets if acting like that. OR do they settle near the Midas rock or territory? Possible night time squabble.. ?

Another possible besides the Midas:
That you can notice- How are the Dispar treating each other..? These Anthias can be touchy, finicky and "change" behavior as well. Some people do "ok" with 2 or 3. But it's not always the best situation. They can have times when they decide to pick on each other too. Especially if 1 is turning male or becoming a dominant female... and sometimes you don't always notice it happening. I had 1 Anthias that would pick off others little by little.(kept a school too small I think) I also had a successful school of 6 once too, for a couple years.

In a tank smaller than 125 - I'd always reccommend (IMO) only 1 nice Anthias specimen as best practice. Or a 125 and larger the better- a school then can be employed of 1 Male to about 5 females. Sometimes group ups less than the 1-5 rule can be hard to work... just another thought- though not definite cause for sure..

You need to take a closer look. Keep watch more and see if you can see the behavior that is happening causing the fin damage. Either the Midas or Dispar-3 quarrels.
If you see nothing in light cycle, try a flashlight at night see if you can find where fish settle - watch there.

If it ends up being Mr. Midas.. then I guess change some rock work up perhaps. I'd hate to disturb anything more.. but maybe a territory change up would fix the dynamic.
If not Midas causing it, and maybe the Anthias thenselves... then I'm not sure what to tell you... Your situation might work.. But I'd only keep 1 Anthias unless I had a very large tank. But see.. Don't be discouraged.

 

[04GT35STi]

Thanks alot for all that info. The midas has only been in there since saturday thats why i had suspected him, whereas the anthias have been in for ~ a month. I will make sure to keep a close watch on everything. So far i have seen no aggression from anyone for about an hour, but the anthias seem to stray away from where ever the midas is.

The anthias are also all eating mysis and cyclopeeze very well and are always active during the day. They usually hang out close together and i havent seen any aggression within the group before. Ill try to watch them tonight, but they usually sleep in the rocks.

I also had no idea that that was how a group dynamic of anthias worked. In my noobishness i assumed that a smaller group would be better since i didnt have a 120, but did have the four foot length. If they end up being the problem i will be sure to find someone to take two of them so i dont cause any more harm.

Thanks again.

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

Also interesting enough, Midas Blennies are often found "swimming" amongst schools of Anthias in the wild. The same behavior is seen by some hobbyists in aquarium groups too.

The yellow and "pinking" area colors on the blennies body seem to sort of match up a little with some Anthias species colors.

I think the fish are accustomed to each other in some situations. The Midas may use a school of Anthias for protection sometimes in the water column. As well as "they'll find food, I'll tag along in the numbers"... type of thing.

But how this works specifically or if this behavior really happens in every situation is questionable. A larger school might be the perfect situation for this type of behavior display. But space issues or school size in an aquarium may determine whether this happens or if there are possible behavior problems between them in some tanks. Mr. Midas "could" be cranky...

AND BTW, I AM NEWBIE too!!! Don't feel bad. I've been doing aquariums for over 40 years and Salt Water/Reef only 7 or so...
There is too much too learn in this hobby to consider anyone a complete master at any stage and at least too much to learn to not be a "noob", unless they've been doing it for at least a minimum of ten years or more. All of us keep learning. It's the fun of it. Don't get discouraged by failures if they happen too. Just take things slow, learn with each experience and keep going.

 

[04GT35STi]

Ok it is definitely the midas. Now that the lights have gone off hes being a dick and chasing them around the tank. Hopefully i can catch and return him.

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

Sorry about your luck. If it's your choice it may be the thing to do. (taking him back) removing all the rock to do it can be a real pain and not something we want to do. But sometimes circumstances leave us with that.

Otherwise,
He actually may need a few more fish in there to break things up a bit- "more distractors" so all the attention is not on the dispar anthias. Whether that is possible or not with out over crowding... is a guess here (only 75 gal) depending on what else you'll want to get. a small series of fish (maybe Chromis) or a Tang or 2 can help put more action into breaking down some aggressions. Or "Spreading it out" more safely. But obviously a bigger tank makes that an option a little easier to do. A 75 "could" make it difficult in a situation where there is an aggression problem like that. You have less to work with to stop it.

Try moving some rock work around and maybe mess up his assertive aggressiveness.. at least temporarily.

Then if you have to go to removing him- it is what it is...
Sorry and Good Luck! I wish it was better news ...

 

[04GT35STi]

I would like some species of Ctenochaetus tang, but have yet to find one locally that i like and is small. Im worried that a tang would make the tank look small though. I already think the midas looks huge in there. And im really not a fan of chromis either. If i dont have to go fishing i would prefer it(already had to remove a 6 line, andd that took three hours). So i will try re arranging a bit first before i attempt to remove him. I just dont want to end up waiting to long and have him kill the smallest anthias( who also has the best coloring, may actually be a different species since its a bit different from the others).

 

[04GT35STi]

So after looking at liveaquaria, i don't believe that these were incorrectly labeled as dispars at the LFS. They look much more like the ignitus anthias, except the smallest who has a yellow tail. Doesn't solve my problem at all, but would there be any care differences between the two species?

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

Pretty much both are somewhat the same as far as behavior and eating .. etc.

They are VERY similar looking. So much that the 2 are confused with eachother all the time and sometimes mixed or labeled wrong at the LFS. Both are from Indo-Pacific and
can be treated much the same for the most part.

Dispar "may" attain an inch or 2 larger than Ignitus at max sizes.
a group of 4-5 minimum is common for Ignitus stocking suggestions,
where suggestions say Dispar should be kept more to the 1 to 5 rule or HIGHER in a somewhat larger tank.

But it doesn't mean these rules are not played with here and there in individual cases that work. The good thing is your Anthias sound acclimated enough and are eating! That's more than half the battle. With smaller groups it's just interesting to see how the development of a Dominant male, Dom or submissive Females will occur or "change". Not as easy to tell the pecking order sometimes. The best thing right now if your keeping them is to decrease or rid the situation of the aggression they see from the Blenny.