Here I come!!! Help Me, Please?

[Kannin]

OK!!! I have 20 inches of linear flow from each overflow with
1 1/2" drains. According to the calculator... that's 1300 gph per side. There will be no 90's. One 45 per side. I'll probably use the Hofer style pipes... unless they restrict flow too much.

2600 is still ok... I guess. Do I still run the Barracuda... and run the extra back to the sump?

 

[jnarowe]

Cuda is a great pump. You will find over time that you will have decreasing flow as pipes get sludge, coraline grows, etc. so it's always nice to have the ability to by-pass and then bring more flow online later. Also, though, for a 220g, you may want to use penductors. they will lower the total through-put, but increase the in-tank flow considerably.

 

[Kannin]

Can you tell me about the penductors? I know that they use a drafting concept to increase flow but, you say that they actually reduce total volumn but increase the pressure. Is that right? As I said on page 1 (I think), The guy at the LFS wants me to try them out and I'm interested but I need more info. If I have only 1100 to 1200 gph going to each side of the tank... and that is split between 4 outlets on each side... that is under 300 gph per outlet. What will the penductors bring it up to? Are they safe for fish? Etc...

 

[pcostanzo]

I use the Hofer overflows. Mine were modified a little. I have 2" drains so I used 2" tube with a 3" to 2" reducer as the cup. They work great.

I also made eduators that I have my returns go through. The idea behind them is the water being forced through the opening is drawing tank water through the side holes increasing the volume of water out.

 

[Kannin]

I think I originally got the Hofer idea from you. Nice work. Do they restrict flow more than Dursos? I wonder how hard it would be for me to change to 2" drains. I've seen plenty of people on here cut glass but, frankly... it scares the crap out of me. I'll probably just stay with the 1 1/2" drains.

Is there any certain hight to put the cups? Other than the noise of the water falling further into the overflow... is anything else affected.

 

[jnarowe]

As far as eductors/penductors go, they force the water through a narrow nozzle which draws tank water along with it, essentially multiplying the water flow. But if you use a Barracuda, the back pressure created by the nozzle will lower overall flow through the overflow and sump. You will still get more flow within the tank, but it is not the ideal situation. You are better off with a pressure rated pump.

So to summarize, if you plan on using eductors, get a pressure rated pump.

 

[Kannin]

I'm not sure I want to go to a pressure rated pump. They are more expensive and larger... I think.

 

[jnarowe]

not really. the initial expense is more if you are just buying one pump, but with the eductors you get 3 - 4 pumps worth of flow. It's actually less expensive in my perspective.

I have Penductors and a non-pressure rated Hammerhead so you could see in person how they work and what you get. If I was doing a closed loop, there is no doubt I would use Sequence pressure rated pumps and eductors.

 

[Kannin]

I was looking at Darts, Barracudas and Marlins.

Flow rated

Dart = 3600 gph @ 0 ft head / 2428 gph @ 7 ft head

Barracuda = 4300 gph @ 0 ft head / 3333 gph @ 8 ft head

Pressure rated

Marlin = 2222 gph @ 0 ft head / 2120 gph @ 10 ft head

The price seems to be close to the same between the Barracuda and the Marlin. But, the Marlin is HUGE! So I guess I need to decide if I want higher flow with less pressure or more pressure but lower flow.

I was told that the longer I run a bigger diameter pipe... the better flow I will get.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11036504#post11036504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
I was looking at Darts, Barracudas and Marlins.

Flow rated

Dart = 3600 gph @ 0 ft head / 2428 gph @ 7 ft head

Barracuda = 4300 gph @ 0 ft head / 3333 gph @ 8 ft head

Pressure rated

Marlin = 2222 gph @ 0 ft head / 2120 gph @ 10 ft head

The price seems to be close to the same between the Barracuda and the Marlin. But, the Marlin is HUGE! So I guess I need to decide if I want higher flow with less pressure or more pressure but lower flow.

Actually this isn't quite accurate. it's high flow with low pressure or HIGHER flow with pressure. And I am talking about in-tank flow, not flow through the sump. IMO, you only need enough flow through the sump to operate your equipment like reactors, heaters, probes, etc. Excessive flow through the sump does no good.

I was told that the longer I run a bigger diameter pipe... the better flow I will get.

Not sure what this means. basically you want to run as big of a pipe as you can, within reason. So if the output on your pump is 1.5", then you want to run at least 1.5" pipe. And especially you do not want to run less than the input size for the input line.

For my Hammerhead, I ran 1.5" input and output, all the way to the 1.5" manifold, which then breaks off into 1" lines. And keep in mind that two 1" lines DO NOT equal a 2" line.

 

[Kannin]

Ok... Now I'm confused. The Barracuda is rated for at least a thousand gallons more at a similar head. I understand that the Marlin loses much less flow but wouldn't the Barracuda still be putting more flow in the tank? Or are you saying this in regard to the penductors?

Do you think that i am planning on pushing too much water thru my sump? Close to 3000 gph.

On the other point... you got what I was saying. Keeping the 1.5" pipe as long as posible b4 dropping down to 1". And, 2 one inch pipes do not equal 1 two inch.

Also, Jonathan... Please don't start charging me by the hour!

 

[jnarowe]

Yes, in relation to using Penductors. Otherwise it's the opposite. I see no reason to run that much water through your sump. I run about 4200gph through mine, but I have a total water volume of around 1,200g. I would look at how much you need to drive through your skimmer before you make any end-game flow decisions. About 600 gph of what goes through my overflow and sump actually feeds directly to the skimmer.

 

[Kannin]

You are tipping me towards the Marlin. Maybe a little over 2100 gph with a little less than half going to each end with more pressure and a couple hundred going to the fuge. What do you think?

 

[jnarowe]

Only if you want to run eductors. But I do recommend that because you can get a lot more in-tank flow with less visual pollution. I wish I had bought a pressure rated pump but I didn't know about eductors then.

It's not quite 2100gph, but look at how low the wattage goes when you have low head pressure. I would contact Penductor and ask them how much head pressure their eductors make. That way you can add that to your existing head pressure, and figure out exactly what flow and wattage you will be running.

You can use this Head Loss Calculator to help out with the math.

 

[pcostanzo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11029195#post11029195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
I think I originally got the Hofer idea from you. Nice work. Do they restrict flow more than Dursos? I wonder how hard it would be for me to change to 2" drains. I've seen plenty of people on here cut glass but, frankly... it scares the crap out of me. I'll probably just stay with the 1 1/2" drains.

Is there any certain hight to put the cups? Other than the noise of the water falling further into the overflow... is anything else affected.

They don't restrict flow more than the Dursos. As a matter of fact when I had Dursos I had to pull the top cap off just to get decent flow and put up with the extra noise.

The 3" cup I have slides snugly up and down the 2" PVC to cover how much of the holes you want to fine tune the flow. You can figure your height 1-2" below your overflows just like the Durso.

Drilling the glass for the extra 1/2" would scare me too. Mine is acrylic and I was going from only 1" holes so I figured go as big as possible.

I have a Hammerhead as my main pump which is not pressure rated but there is a difference in the flow with the eduators. I heard from people with pressure rated pumps that you can get 4X the water movement. Mine probably is 2X than without them.

If you go pressure rated the Marlin is great. I have one running a large double Beckett skimmer and the pump is very quiet.

 

[SVTour]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11037790#post11037790 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
Do you think that i am planning on pushing too much water thru my sump? Close to 3000 gph.

On the other point... you got what I was saying. Keeping the 1.5" pipe as long as posible b4 dropping down to 1". And, 2 one inch pipes do not equal 1 two inch.

Definitely high on the flow, I'm pushing about 1800 through my 90 gallon sump and feel it's on the high side. Remember, overall goal of the sump is to do all the dirty work...heating, skimming, etc. I don't think it helps if the water just wizzes by.

I'm a little confused by the second statement...why are you dropping from 1.5" to 1"?

 

[Kannin]

I'm dropping from 1.5" to 1" because the out on the opump is 1.5" or maybe even 2"... (I haven't looked at the Marlin to know the size of the out) But, my returns are 1"... so, I will make my manifold and piping to it from the pump out of pvc as large as possible and then drop the diameter down from there.

Heres the pic of my overflows.

 

[SVTour]

Okay, I'm with you now...I thought you were dropping your 1.5" returns down to 1" and couldn't figure out why. :lol:


Carry on...

 

[Kannin]

I really appreciate you guys. I would hate to be 3 or 4 months down the road and be saying... " I wish I had done it this way". When I do my build thread, I'll be giving you guys 49% of the credit.

 

[jnarowe]

49% is not bad. :lol: