cakemanPA
New member
Gotta say that I agree
Hey newbie !!! Stop and read this !!!
- Thread starter CuzzA
- Start date
Mantispunch
New member
hmmm
Kyle461, Thank you but that's not my motivation here, nor can I pretend to be as experienced as some of the others who participate everyday. I did, however, like many successful reefers, spend a good year researching as much as possible before I even purchased my first piece of equipment. And even now I still seek out new information everyday. There is still a great deal that we don't know and we all have a lot to learn.
Mythicalelf
New member
I agree but I also would add that I got into saltwater @15 years ago and just now really decided to do a main reef tank.
That being said the main 2 reasons I got into SW was I was a "FW MASTER" meaning my fish rarely died or got sick and lived for years and maybe some a decade or more and the other was the LFS made it sound so easy.
Because of those 2 things I lost a lot of fish and money.
Luckily I didn't give up and I started checking what the LFS said.
Worst piece of advice I got was "oh the HumaHUma trigger will go great with your other fish and isn't agressive at all" BTW I didn't check that info out first.
Anyways I now am starting a nano and researching a larger tank.
I love this site.
I also think most mistakes are made because at a lot of the LFS they portray reefing as being easy as long as you buy these expensive lights.
That being said the main 2 reasons I got into SW was I was a "FW MASTER" meaning my fish rarely died or got sick and lived for years and maybe some a decade or more and the other was the LFS made it sound so easy.
Because of those 2 things I lost a lot of fish and money.
Luckily I didn't give up and I started checking what the LFS said.
Worst piece of advice I got was "oh the HumaHUma trigger will go great with your other fish and isn't agressive at all" BTW I didn't check that info out first.
Anyways I now am starting a nano and researching a larger tank.
I love this site.
I also think most mistakes are made because at a lot of the LFS they portray reefing as being easy as long as you buy these expensive lights.
Perhaps you guys aren't looking at it from the right perspective. Your post goes back to question #5. Everyday people post on social media about the abuses of dogs and other pets. I'm sure you've seen it... Hashtag this, Hashtag that. Yet, when it comes to ornamental marine animals... Pshh, the response is in an obviously sarcastic way, "Nary a fish nor coral would be lost." Replace the words fish with cat and coral with dog in that sentence and put that out there and see the type of response you'll get.
I haven't labeled anyone a failure (you said that) and I certainly didn't ask anyone to be perfect. 5 simple questions is all that I asked. If you don't have the money, time, commitment and willingness to research and learn, odds are you will fail. I would think coming from a couple people who have been in the hobby a few years you would agree. Nor, did I suggest people stop asking questions.
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JimSWreef
New member
Great post. I am new myself. Very new in fact. But I am doing a ton of research...my wife gives me crap for watching fish YouTube videos all day. I am a firm believer of "do it right, do it light, do it wrong, do it long." I ask a ton of questions and troll forums like crazy. I want to thank all the experienced reefers for taking the time to help out us newbies on the pole to do it the right way. I am on day one of my cycle and started my own YouTube channel if anyone is interested in following or commenting on my journey. It's james Crawshaw. Thanks again for the great post. It is inspiring.
Cheers
Cheers
Welcome Jim! Yes, do it right! Or at least try your best. Words to live your life by.
Bruce51
New member
Love this post. I'm a noob to SW tanks. Haven't started one yet, still doing the research. Have around 50 pages of notes, lists, things to do and not to do, fish I want and others that I don't. Probably will be 6 more months of research before I even begin to put together a system. Have plenty of time. Patience is a virtue in this hobby.
ZeeSparrow
New member
I'm a newbie to SW having kept a 55 gallon FW tank for ~10 years. When my husband and I discussed the possibility of starting up a reef tank, I started researching. It will be probably another month before I have all of the equipment I need to start setting up and in that time, I will continue to read, research and ask questions. I'm certain I will continue to do so for some time after... as long as I have a tank running.
I agree with this brutally honest post 100%. These 5 questions were ones I asked myself before I bought anything.
1) Do I have the money to partake in an expensive hobby like this?
Yes. I even went so far as to discuss it with my husband and make sure we both understood how much of our disposable income would be spent. And he encouraged me, and continues to do so, to make sure that I get what I NEED and don't try to save money, take shortcuts or make costly mistakes by being cheap. (Not that you can't DIY or find alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, but I don't have to do something JUST to save money. It's about doing the BEST thing for the animals.)
2) Do I have the time to commit to a hobby like this?
Yes. Our kids are grown and I have multiple hours available every day to do what needs to be done (be that reading, researching, planning, maintaining, fixing, water changes, feeding, cleaning, or just sitting and watching the tank---someday).
3) Am I willing to do the research required to start and maintain a ornamental marine system?
Yes. I love learning new things, and it seems that every new thing I learn about this hobby leads to more questions, more research, and more new things to learn! I love it!
4) Am I willing to learn from others and accept the information I have gathered?
Yes. I never understand why anyone would not be willing to do that. HOWEVER, I also recognize the need to "consider the source" and verify the information I am provided with more research. Otherwise, I would believe everything I read on the internet and heard from my LFS, which would lead to complete and utter confusion.
5) Last but not least. Do I understand the consequences of my actions in this hobby?
Yes. My dogs, cat and current fish (FW tank) are my responsibility, just as much as my children when they were growing up (and sometimes still are). I look forward to growing my family with SW fish, inverts and corals... slowly, cautiously, with plenty of research and patience.
When I have questions, because I know I will, I will research more. Sometimes that research will include posting on here, asking questions of all of you more experienced folks, to help me succeed at caring for my new family, calming my nerves, reminding me to have patience and boosting my confidence.
I agree with this brutally honest post 100%. These 5 questions were ones I asked myself before I bought anything.
1) Do I have the money to partake in an expensive hobby like this?
Yes. I even went so far as to discuss it with my husband and make sure we both understood how much of our disposable income would be spent. And he encouraged me, and continues to do so, to make sure that I get what I NEED and don't try to save money, take shortcuts or make costly mistakes by being cheap. (Not that you can't DIY or find alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, but I don't have to do something JUST to save money. It's about doing the BEST thing for the animals.)
2) Do I have the time to commit to a hobby like this?
Yes. Our kids are grown and I have multiple hours available every day to do what needs to be done (be that reading, researching, planning, maintaining, fixing, water changes, feeding, cleaning, or just sitting and watching the tank---someday).
3) Am I willing to do the research required to start and maintain a ornamental marine system?
Yes. I love learning new things, and it seems that every new thing I learn about this hobby leads to more questions, more research, and more new things to learn! I love it!
4) Am I willing to learn from others and accept the information I have gathered?
Yes. I never understand why anyone would not be willing to do that. HOWEVER, I also recognize the need to "consider the source" and verify the information I am provided with more research. Otherwise, I would believe everything I read on the internet and heard from my LFS, which would lead to complete and utter confusion.
5) Last but not least. Do I understand the consequences of my actions in this hobby?
Yes. My dogs, cat and current fish (FW tank) are my responsibility, just as much as my children when they were growing up (and sometimes still are). I look forward to growing my family with SW fish, inverts and corals... slowly, cautiously, with plenty of research and patience.
When I have questions, because I know I will, I will research more. Sometimes that research will include posting on here, asking questions of all of you more experienced folks, to help me succeed at caring for my new family, calming my nerves, reminding me to have patience and boosting my confidence.
Bruce, that is the key to success! There is so much information and it's hard to take it all in. Taking notes and bookmarking is a big help. I found once I felt confident enough to start building my system I would go back and read the information I saved. And because I learned more since the first time reading it, it made a lot more sense the second time around.
Plus you are just flat out prepared. For example, I cataloged every hitchhiker out there and classified them as good and bad. Most of the time I knew what it was, but when I didn't I had the info right there for quick access. Which is great when you need to act fast to get something out of your tank.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll have great success.
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
Many of your points are discussed in Tony Vargas' book, "œThe Coral Reef Aquarium. However, your deliver is poor at best. This is a hobby and it is intended to be fun; your diatribe about money comes across as elitist and the thread as a whole is very negitive. (i.e. if you're not rich, do something else!!!) Housing marine life is serious and should not be taken lightly, but lets not be hypocritical; what is best for these animals is leaving them in the oceans. If I were a newbie reading this thread, I would think this is a great hobby, but the people in it are not so great.
4) Am I willing to learn from others and accept the information I have gathered?
Yes. I never understand why anyone would not be willing to do that. HOWEVER, I also recognize the need to "consider the source" and verify the information I am provided with more research. Otherwise, I would believe everything I read on the internet and heard from my LFS, which would lead to complete and utter confusion.
Zee, this is very true. Whenever I got answers to questions I would always trust, yet verify.
CHSUB, I'm sorry you feel that way. I think the response of some of the posters here contradicts your assessment of my post. Recall the first thing I said was "brutally honest". I've engaged in "The New to the Hobby" forum for over 2 years. (One year before I became a member here at RC). And I've read countless threads of unnecessary death of marine life due to the lack of understanding of the marine environment. Most recently, I've found an utter disregard for the advice being given on here. Which I find frustrating.
Absolutely, this is a fun hobby. For the most part the people are fun. But you made my point for me. "Housing marine life is serious and should not be taken lightly." If that were the case why do we see so many "all my fish died" threads? Ask yourself this, "Maybe his approach will put a sense of urgency into taking this hobby seriously." Furthermore, I do not like the term hobby. It's really not a hobby. Is owning a dog a hobby? No. Neither is owning fish. I expect my hippo tang to live another 20 years. He is my pet. Plain and simple.
As far as the money, my intentions were not to come across as elitist. It's just a fact about being in this hobby, err... owing these pets. It is what it is. I would love to be in the yachting hobby too, but guess what? I recognize I can't afford a yacht.
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mmittlesteadt
New member
My feelings about this are pretty strong. I value ALL life, even that of a little snail. I don't think of anything alive as disposable. If coming across as negative or elitist (on a reef forum on the internet) can turn someone off this hobby, then they were never that into it to begin with.
I'm not too interested sparing someone's feelings at the expense of a creature's life. Perception being what it is, if someone kept a pet dog for the first time, they would be a "newbie". Letting countless numbers of dogs die while learning how to care for one would be considered an outrage. But a snail? A crab? Who cares, right? Where is that line drawn in the ocean sand?
I see posts about CUC's as if they are just there to do the dirty work until something worthwhile comes along and then if they kick the bucket, well...no loss, just get more. If I put even a snail in my tank, I want to know everything about it's needs, lifespan, enemies, food source and do my best to ensure it thrives in my tank. That snail is fascinating enough to warrant my attention and diligence.
But that's me. I agree entirely with the OP (even the presentation).
I'm not too interested sparing someone's feelings at the expense of a creature's life. Perception being what it is, if someone kept a pet dog for the first time, they would be a "newbie". Letting countless numbers of dogs die while learning how to care for one would be considered an outrage. But a snail? A crab? Who cares, right? Where is that line drawn in the ocean sand?
I see posts about CUC's as if they are just there to do the dirty work until something worthwhile comes along and then if they kick the bucket, well...no loss, just get more. If I put even a snail in my tank, I want to know everything about it's needs, lifespan, enemies, food source and do my best to ensure it thrives in my tank. That snail is fascinating enough to warrant my attention and diligence.
But that's me. I agree entirely with the OP (even the presentation).
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Scoted
New member
As a new tank owner I see all sides of this issue. One problem I see is that between posts and searching old posts it is rather difficult to know the experience level of the people responding. For example CuzzA has a join date of 2014 as compared to someone else with a join date of 2006. If you search Qt here you will run across threads that say more fish die in the Qt process than from ick. Things have changed since my last SW tank 10 years ago. From also reading threads I can see your angst and over all I strongly agree with your post. Just my 2 cents
richieii, I'm sorry you took offense. However, you're twisting my post. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't become new owners of these pets.
Have you asked yourself what some other people think about owning these animals. How about a popular TV show and organization that you probably support, yet unknowingly to you they are against everything about us. While you're researching about your new tank, do a little research about those who want to see it end. I think you'll find the questions I posed in this thread are the very reasons why some people want to see owning these animals come to an end.
cakemanPA
New member
I do agree with most of what you are saying by the way. Whether you care or not, the sanctimonious tone (and yes tone can be intended and delivered online) is a major negative. I don't think your intended audience will read long enough to learn. The more flies with honey technique is more useful imo if you are really trying to teach as opposed to preach.
Indeed Scoted. Unfortunately, post counts or join dates don't guarantee you're getting the best information. I've read posts from 5 year members and flat out knew they were wrong. Conversely, I've read new members posts and thought, wow, this guy knows what he's talking about.
And due to the nature of reef keeping there are a lot of different ways to get to to where you want to be. And every single tank is different, both chemically and biologically. So, while some things work for some people, it may not work for you. Often times you'll see the term "Best Practices". And qting all new arrivals, IMO, is a best practice. If done properly you can have minimal loses in qt.
Thanks for the support.
