Hey newbie !!! Stop and read this !!!
- Thread starter CuzzA
- Start date
Yes, lately sunshine and rainbows haven't been very effective. Lightning always gets someone's attention.
If nothing else Sinocard at least it's reinforcing that all this research will pay off big time.
KabayanReef
New member
Heh, this way of thinking is what got me to agree in the first place.
JammyBirch
Aquaria Engineering
I agree, research and accepting advise from others is the key to success. My only gripe about stickies is all of following posts that do nothing for anyone. For instance this post would make a great sticky if the 2 pages of agreeing and "good jobs" were edited out.
I research a ton on here, I mean a ton...my wife hates this forum because I'm on it for hours. I almost never read the stickies...I go straight to the search feature.
Just say'n...
I research a ton on here, I mean a ton...my wife hates this forum because I'm on it for hours. I almost never read the stickies...I go straight to the search feature.
Just say'n...
cmcoker
New member
[QUOTE/] You wouldn't go buy a dog and keep it in a 2 foot cage for the rest of its life. You wouldn't buy a dog and not get it its shots. You wouldn't buy a dog and feed it lettuce. You wouldn't (shouldn't) buy a dog without the commitment to keep it as long as it lives. The same goes for our marine animals. They are pets, not inanimate objects[/QUOTE]
You would think people would not do this, but they do. All the time. Having worked in the veterinary field, I can tell you a LOT of people buy animals, of all types, on a whim. I have worked general and emergency practices for over 15 years. I can't tell you the number of people who do not vaccinate their pets regularly, or refuse to administer Heartworm prevention. Pay $3000 for a dog and then "can't afford" routine medical care. I have seen dogs euthanized for allergies with the owner refusing to try so much as an Benadryl. My favorite at the ER was "my pet has been having diarrhea for a week, now I am here at 3am because they did it in the house".
While I agree with the need for research and caring for the animals we choose to house. Your tone will only alienate the people who need this information most. All they will hear is that guys a jerk, and then proceed to the nearest LFS that will tell them what they want to hear.
You would think people would not do this, but they do. All the time. Having worked in the veterinary field, I can tell you a LOT of people buy animals, of all types, on a whim. I have worked general and emergency practices for over 15 years. I can't tell you the number of people who do not vaccinate their pets regularly, or refuse to administer Heartworm prevention. Pay $3000 for a dog and then "can't afford" routine medical care. I have seen dogs euthanized for allergies with the owner refusing to try so much as an Benadryl. My favorite at the ER was "my pet has been having diarrhea for a week, now I am here at 3am because they did it in the house".
While I agree with the need for research and caring for the animals we choose to house. Your tone will only alienate the people who need this information most. All they will hear is that guys a jerk, and then proceed to the nearest LFS that will tell them what they want to hear.
Hey newbie !!! Stop and read this !!!
Perhaps, but the response has been just the opposite. I believe only one new member has voiced their displeasure while many more have approved.
So, I appreciate your opinion. I don't agree with it. You're making excuses for treating animals poorly. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it ok. And maybe if we started holding people more accountable for their actions and bluntly telling them how it is rather than sugar coating it more people won't be killing millions of animals every day.
And really if you go back and read what I said, I would not describe it as negative, instead I was straight forward and to the point. And if you frequent the new to the hobby forum lately and try to "help" people you would understand where I'm coming from.
Perhaps, but the response has been just the opposite. I believe only one new member has voiced their displeasure while many more have approved.
So, I appreciate your opinion. I don't agree with it. You're making excuses for treating animals poorly. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it ok. And maybe if we started holding people more accountable for their actions and bluntly telling them how it is rather than sugar coating it more people won't be killing millions of animals every day.
And really if you go back and read what I said, I would not describe it as negative, instead I was straight forward and to the point. And if you frequent the new to the hobby forum lately and try to "help" people you would understand where I'm coming from.
Pokahpolice
New member
I'm conflicted with my feelings of this thread. We've all lost fish and corals. Even the most experienced person essentially kills an animal in this hobby due to lack of knowledge. Example - Marine Biologists kill animals all the time in the name of research...whether it's during an attempt to breed or test new methods and products. Your post doesn't include any of your failures or lessons learned through experience. We all know that the best knowledge is that of which we learned through doing and yes, sometimes failing. Have you ever failed and killed livestock?
While I agree that new hobbyist need to research the animals they intend to keep, I also understand that people with the best intentions will make a mistake that can and probably will kill livestock. Your post, while maybe not intentional, shames those mistakes and comes off like you learned through perfection.
While I agree that new hobbyist need to research the animals they intend to keep, I also understand that people with the best intentions will make a mistake that can and probably will kill livestock. Your post, while maybe not intentional, shames those mistakes and comes off like you learned through perfection.
Stolireef
Active member
This is a well stated 'rant' but I'd add a couple of caveats.
First, all reef keepers experience the occasional failure. Look at most of the ROTM threads and you will see many examples. These are some of the best in our hobby and they have experienced complete tank wipeouts.
Second, every tank is unique. While there are some very strong rules of thumb, there are so many ways to keep a successful reef tank. Keeper observation and management is critical.
Just my two cents.
First, all reef keepers experience the occasional failure. Look at most of the ROTM threads and you will see many examples. These are some of the best in our hobby and they have experienced complete tank wipeouts.
Second, every tank is unique. While there are some very strong rules of thumb, there are so many ways to keep a successful reef tank. Keeper observation and management is critical.
Just my two cents.
Hey newbie !!! Stop and read this !!!
Totally understand. And absolutely I've had a few losses and made mistakes. Some losses are unavoidable. For example, a cyanid collected fish is likely doomed and is no fault to the owner. And if you go back and read the original thread I said even the seasoned hobbyist faces challenges. But honestly my mistakes have been few and far between. Because the first thing I learned was patience and research and even more importantly never do anything fast without thinking about the consequences. I spent a year researching before buying my first piece of equipment. The information I gathered made the process a breeze. Look at my thread history. You won't find questions like what's this brown algae or why are my nitrates through the roof. In fact, my current and first setup is 13 months old and has NEVER experienced nuisance algae or any of the other problems we see everyday. I chalk it up to the information passed on by those before me, but also to the fact that I seeked out that information.
Nevertheless, my problem is with the typical scenario we see all the time. Uncycled tank, loaded with fish, fish that have no business being in small tanks, can't afford a test kit, all fish die, repeat.
Perhaps instead of critiquing what I said, others can add more advice to what it takes to be a hobbyist.
Totally understand. And absolutely I've had a few losses and made mistakes. Some losses are unavoidable. For example, a cyanid collected fish is likely doomed and is no fault to the owner. And if you go back and read the original thread I said even the seasoned hobbyist faces challenges. But honestly my mistakes have been few and far between. Because the first thing I learned was patience and research and even more importantly never do anything fast without thinking about the consequences. I spent a year researching before buying my first piece of equipment. The information I gathered made the process a breeze. Look at my thread history. You won't find questions like what's this brown algae or why are my nitrates through the roof. In fact, my current and first setup is 13 months old and has NEVER experienced nuisance algae or any of the other problems we see everyday. I chalk it up to the information passed on by those before me, but also to the fact that I seeked out that information.
Nevertheless, my problem is with the typical scenario we see all the time. Uncycled tank, loaded with fish, fish that have no business being in small tanks, can't afford a test kit, all fish die, repeat.
Perhaps instead of critiquing what I said, others can add more advice to what it takes to be a hobbyist.
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Finnaddict
New member
AMEN!
Love your post and totally agree with 1-5! The internet wasn't around when I got into reefing, so it was books and magazines that I read and learned from.
BTW I hate the ID threads too. I cant understand why someone would buy an animal they know nothing about.
Thanks for posting this!
Love your post and totally agree with 1-5! The internet wasn't around when I got into reefing, so it was books and magazines that I read and learned from.
BTW I hate the ID threads too. I cant understand why someone would buy an animal they know nothing about.
Thanks for posting this!
gone fishin
New member
When I first started considering a reef I found a local forum. I still remember my first post on any forum.
It was " I am thinking of starting a reef would anyone be willing to let me see their tank and answer some questions."
I was overwhelmed with responses and many helpful people that took the time out of their lives to meet a stranger. I certainly appreciated the time and advice.
Seek out experience and learn from others mistakes. If someone tells you that they know everything about reef keeping run fast.
Go slow build up your own experience level and confidence. Just my 2 cents.
It was " I am thinking of starting a reef would anyone be willing to let me see their tank and answer some questions."
I was overwhelmed with responses and many helpful people that took the time out of their lives to meet a stranger. I certainly appreciated the time and advice.
Seek out experience and learn from others mistakes. If someone tells you that they know everything about reef keeping run fast.
Go slow build up your own experience level and confidence. Just my 2 cents.
Big_Boss_77
New member
This is what I was implying, that if you are going to drive the average newbie into the arms of the nearest lfs. What do lfs do? Sell fish. Do they care if your set up is up to par or do they care about making money? I'm just saying, you're more likely to drive off people who are going to miss out on all the solid advice.
I like the lightening CuzzA, trust me I do. What I don't want though is someone who needs to hear the information most miss out on it because you're preaching to the choir. Apologies if this comes off as offensive or contradictory to the general consensus.
Thanks. You're welcome.
+1 My first thread was basically, "Here's my plan guys, what do you think?" And I took the advice offered. Researched it. And for the most part used that advice.
No apology needed. Even if the response was overwhelmingly against this thread, I think at a minimum it's at least engaging us into the conversation of taking this hobby a little more serious than how it's been perceived in the past.
As I'm sure you know the marine hobby is night and day to fresh water where there is an unlimited supply of fish and almost all of the fish in freshwater are captive bred. Which is not the case for us. And snorkel Bob and many others are doing everything they can to put an end to our hobby. It's our responsibility to be great hobbyist to insure we have a sustainable hobby for future generations.
cmcoker
New member
There is not an unlimited supply of freshwater fish. There are freshwater species that now only exist in the hobby and are extinct in the wild, just saying.
What's your source that all freshwater fish are captive bred? LFS down the street always has wild caught cichlids..
Big_Boss_77
New member
1. I always try to encourage discussion. Even if it means playing the devil's advocate.
2. I don't disagree with anything you've said at all, I believe this "hobby" shouldn't even be called a hobby. A hobby implies a lackadaisical, whimsical air. Like you said, it's a job, and should be treated with reverence and respect.
I guess I've rambled on enough... I respectfully retract my statements and leave you all to your peace.
Have a good one.
