Hey "pearlscale" butterfly aficionados

[SDguy]

I have a question. How does the anterior color compare between xanthurus, mertensii, and madagaskariensis? Is madagaskariensis yellow like mertensii, or orange like xanthurus, or neither? Google images generally look orange like xanthurus, but lighting, camera settings, etc... I'm not sure.

 

[DFS]

Peter,
As you know being an expert Butterflyfish aficionado, Gerald Allen, Roger Steene and Mark Allen in their book "A Guide to Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes" as well as Scott W. Michael's book "Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes" suggest C. madagaskariensis is a synonym of C. mertensii, but WoRMS and FishBase both still consider them to be separate species.

In my observation and experience the posterior of C. xantuurus, C. mertensii, and C. madagaskariensis appear more yellow/orange when small (under 2"), then darken as the fish matures, turning a deep orange coloration as full adults.

I think some of the color variation you have observed can be attributed to the physical size of the fish displayed in the photographs, as well as regional variation in each species which could be attributed to diet, depth and and habitat where they reside, etc. Just my 2 cents.

 

[DFS]

Double post

 

[jjk_reef00]

To my eyes, which are not great, xanthurus and mertensii have the same orange color in person. I've never compared them side by side though. I use to own a larger mertensii and it was a nice orange, which is consistent to DFS explanation above.

 

[tcmfish]

While the differences seem slight...

In Kuiter's Butterflyfish book...

C. mertensii is differentiated from C. madagaskariensis by "fewer chevron bars and a continuous band running from the nape to over the eye"

As for the orange in the pics, the orange looks brightest in C. madagaskariensis but then again it is a picture and without seeing all three side by side who knows.

Personally I think the pattern is much nicer on C. xanthurus than the others.

 

[tcmfish]

Notice the continuous eye in C. mertensii and lack of "crown" or spot above the eye band, just a darker region.

In C. madagaskariensis the eye band is separate on each side of the head, and there is a "crown" or spot above the bands.

C. xanthurus has a much more defined pearl scale or lattice pattern and some individuals seem to have a half circle orange region (or in other words less orange on the dorsal side compared to the other two species).

The orange seems fairly similar throughout and individuals of the same species seem to vary. Just by pattern alone though I think C. xanthurus is more striking.

 

[SDguy]

Thanks everyone for the replies, much appreciated! So the reason I was asking the question is this. Maybe it's kind of corny, but I wanted to try having 3 pearlscale type butterflies in the 240 - one with red (paucifasciatus), one with orange (xanthurus), and one with yellow (mertensii).

Now, the mertensii that I have seen in person, at least in the last few years, have always had very yellow posteriors, regardless of size, like this:

What I don't like about this fish is the smudge instead of a defined crown (as tcmfish pointed out), and the fact that more often than not the chevrons are distrupted and non-uniform looking, like this (often worse).

Also, the fish just seems more elongated, with a more severe sloping forehead. Again, not so attractive:

Then I saw that LADD has had C. madagaskariensis a few times. As Kevin pointed out, many consider this a synonym of mertensii. Because of this, I was maybe hoping that it would also have the yellow posterior that I have seen in mertensii. But it sounds like the really yellow ones may be regional, expecially if large.

 

[Big E]

The 3" mertensi I had was more of a rusty orange or orange/yellow.

Every pearlscale I've seen is more of a solid bright orange.

 

[DFS]

Peter,
I finally succeeded in obtaining all three species (or variants depending on if your a splitter or not :uhoh2.

The three fishes are all very close in size to one another and do vary every so slightly in color and shade of yellow-orange or solid orange.

I will try and shoot a picture of all three together and post it here for everyone interested in this thread.

Happy Fishkeeping!
Kevin

 

[SDguy]

Awesome Kevin! Very much looking forward to some pics! And possibly another invoice

 

[bullitr]

Lol

 

[jjk_reef00]

That is amazing service DFS, and much appreciated!

 

[DFS]

Xanthurus Complex Butterflyfishes Comparison of Posterior Coloration

Xanthurus Complex Butterflyfishes Comparison of Posterior Coloration

All three fish are right around 3" TL from the tip of the snout to the center line of the soft caudal fin, and have been harvested in the last 10-14 days so they are relatively "fresh", and have not been exposed to captive conditions, ie lighting, prepared foods, etc. for an extended period of time which may alter their coloration.

From Left to Right:
Indonesian Chaetodon xanthurus- Orange/Red coloration
Maldives Chaetodon madagaskariensis- Orange coloration
Fiji Chaetodon mertensii- Orange/Yellow coloration

Kevin Kohen

 

[SDguy]

Fantastic photo Kevin, thanks so much. It is very much as I thought, actually! So neat to see the transition... the madagaskariensis really does look like a mix of the other two.

 

[Rapide]

So where does paucifasciatus stand?
I'm not actually aware if it is just another name for one of these fishes...
A friend of mine has two of them. They do look different to me, maybe more red and a small whiter strip between the red area in the back and the "net-like" pattern. If I remember right :/
And if I remember right, they were unreasonably uneconomical fishes! I mean like a highway robbery expensive...

 

[tcmfish]

So where does paucifasciatus stand?
I'm not actually aware if it is just another name for one of these fishes...
A friend of mine has two of them. They do look different to me, maybe more red and a small whiter strip between the red area in the back and the "net-like" pattern. If I remember right :/
And if I remember right, they were unreasonably uneconomical fishes! I mean like a highway robbery expensive...

They are red, and they are expensive because they have been unavailable for such a long time! Supply and demand, and people want what they can't have. They come from the Red Sea and fish from there just starting showing up again but even before when purple tangs, sohal tangs, and regal angels were around the paucifasciatus was scarce.

 

[SDguy]

Paucifasciatus has chevrons, like the mertensii. It also has a gold eye stripe, not black. And of course, the crimson red back...

 

[Rapide]

Oh well... I have to get one now
Never ever tell me something like that...

Purple: coming
Sohal: Check!
Regal: Check!

 

[SDguy]

I've got cousins

 

[Mikefallen13]

Beautiful butterflies!! I love the Paucifasciatus, one of my all time favorite fish.