High Nitrates!!!
- Thread starter magdelan
- Start date
I'm sorry I answered this but the post didn't go through.I probably hit the wrong button. I don't know enough about the chemistry of nitrate to answer with certainty. I think nitrate molecules would move with water through the sand and stirring would not be needed to release them since they are likely formed in the upper sand areas where there is sufficient oxygen.What stirring will release is pre nitrate organics (dom) There is a bit of argument over wether or not skimmers can actually remove nitrate but there is no argument I am aware of that the pre nitrate organics are b removed.
There is a danger in too much stirring and stirring too deeply. In a dsb the deeper area may be anoxic(without oxygen), Nutrient matter in these areas is broken down by bacteria but without oxygen they bind up sulphide instead creating Hydrogen sulfide(smells like rotten eggs)and can be toxic.
With a two inch sand bed, the sand is not likely to remove much if any nitrate. It might actually be producing it. It's not deep enough for the low to zero oxygen bacteria to thrive. As you know denitrication involves three elements and three bacterial actions. Ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite to nitrate, then nitrate to free nitogen which is released harmlessly into the air. It is likely that a 2 inch sand be will only support the first two steps since the bacteria that convert nitrate to free nitrogen do so in an anerobic or anoxic environment(low or zero oxygen). So if the process stops at step two nitrate from ammonia and nitrite will be the end product.
This depth of sand be can also trap a lot of decaying material which is better dealt in the water column.
In my opinion a sand bed should be 4inches plus if you wan't it to denitrify. If you wan't it for aesthetics or to support benthic fauana ,then you may wan't to think about keeping it thin say an inch or so and emplouing some sifters, like nausarius snails, cerith snails and/or a diamon goby. With a shallow sand bed frequent puffing off is needed.
When you release detrius and organics into the water column it is food food many things,some good and some that are undesireable like nuisance algaes. You may also wan't to puff off your rock periodically to float out detrius that accumulates there.
I have dsb in two tanks that are connected to my system. I also have a 120-g with only very fine oolicitc sand ranging in depth from 1.5 inches to .5 inches primarily for the beachy look. I lightly puff the surface of all of them every few days.
This depth of sand be can also trap a lot of decaying material which is better dealt in the water column.
In my opinion a sand bed should be 4inches plus if you wan't it to denitrify. If you wan't it for aesthetics or to support benthic fauana ,then you may wan't to think about keeping it thin say an inch or so and emplouing some sifters, like nausarius snails, cerith snails and/or a diamon goby. With a shallow sand bed frequent puffing off is needed.
When you release detrius and organics into the water column it is food food many things,some good and some that are undesireable like nuisance algaes. You may also wan't to puff off your rock periodically to float out detrius that accumulates there.
I have dsb in two tanks that are connected to my system. I also have a 120-g with only very fine oolicitc sand ranging in depth from 1.5 inches to .5 inches primarily for the beachy look. I lightly puff the surface of all of them every few days.
magdelan
Fish?
Thanks Tom. Is Oolitic this finest sand there is? I want the super fine sugar sand in my 180. Also, I have been stirring my sand bed and puffing off my rocks. I feel that it is releasing much of the unwanted detritus that other creatures have already processed into the water columb and my skimmer is picking up the rest. My skimmer has been working much more since I started doing this so I know that something is coming out of the sand!
Also, I had a small (3 gallon) problem tonight. My wife was at her parent's house when I got home from work tonight. She would have normally caught this sort of thing if she was home, but she wasn't. The intake on the skimmer had come loose a bit and began leaking. When I got home, I heard the noise of water gurgling and splashing...never a good sound! As I walked into the living room, I noticed that the water level in my tank was about 4 inches lower than normal. I quickly resolved the problem with a bit of newly mixed water. Unfortunately, the carpet infont of the tank is soaked!!! But luckily, my wife seemed to care less. There could be terrorists at our front door, but as long as they had corals in their hands, she would just tune them out.
"Honey, Osamah, Syed, and Ali are here. They brought some Acropora and Montipora for my tank. (wife tuning this out) Then they would like to take our baby, skin our cats and burn our house down".
"Okay honey. Just have them take their shoes off".
Also, I had a small (3 gallon) problem tonight. My wife was at her parent's house when I got home from work tonight. She would have normally caught this sort of thing if she was home, but she wasn't. The intake on the skimmer had come loose a bit and began leaking. When I got home, I heard the noise of water gurgling and splashing...never a good sound! As I walked into the living room, I noticed that the water level in my tank was about 4 inches lower than normal. I quickly resolved the problem with a bit of newly mixed water. Unfortunately, the carpet infont of the tank is soaked!!! But luckily, my wife seemed to care less. There could be terrorists at our front door, but as long as they had corals in their hands, she would just tune them out.
"Honey, Osamah, Syed, and Ali are here. They brought some Acropora and Montipora for my tank. (wife tuning this out) Then they would like to take our baby, skin our cats and burn our house down".
"Okay honey. Just have them take their shoes off".
Yes I believe oolictic is the finest. I have it and it is like sugar. My simmer is in the sump in the basement,so I don't have to test my 39 year relationship with my wonderful wife. You are blessed buddy.
Here's the sand I use in the 120.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10741+7321&pcatid=7321
Here's the sand I use in the 120.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10741+7321&pcatid=7321
redrider911
New member
Well I dug this up wanting to know when I started the rdsb, and what do you know, It has been 4 weeks since I installed it. I tested my trates and they were still at 30-40. I will retest in 2 weeks.
thriceanangel
Active member
This is what happened to me. A RDSB didn't do anything to solve the problem...
magdelan
Fish?
Hmmm... My friend has a rdsb set up and was having a similar problem. Here's the thing... the water from the main display is drained into a filter bag in the sump. From there it goes through the skimmer and then through the standard baffels to "the other side". On the other side, the water is pumped via a MJ 400 to a "Reef Crystal" bucket with a DSB. The water is then overflowed back to the filterbag.
My thoughts were that the water is being cleaned and then void of nitrates, then fed back into the DIRTY filter bag. Nothing was happening to the nitrates. I suggested plumbing the overflow of the dsb dirrectly into the pump. Now the water from the display overflows to the filter bag in the sump. Then it is pulled through the skimmer and sent through the baffels to the other side. It is then pumped to the RDSB. The RDSB then overflows dirrectly to the pump where the skimmed and nitrate deprived water is then pumped back up to the display. He has been having success with this.
My thoughts were that the water is being cleaned and then void of nitrates, then fed back into the DIRTY filter bag. Nothing was happening to the nitrates. I suggested plumbing the overflow of the dsb dirrectly into the pump. Now the water from the display overflows to the filter bag in the sump. Then it is pulled through the skimmer and sent through the baffels to the other side. It is then pumped to the RDSB. The RDSB then overflows dirrectly to the pump where the skimmed and nitrate deprived water is then pumped back up to the display. He has been having success with this.
redrider911
New member
^^^mine is kinda like that. Display, thru filter sock, then skimmer, then cheato, then w/ a mj 1200 - phosban reactor with carbon and gfo, then rdsb, ending with that water going back to display (not back to filter sock).
I will try using water when it first gets to sump and see what happens. The skimmer does not remove trates I thought so I don't see how this would help. Still worth a try though.
I will try using water when it first gets to sump and see what happens. The skimmer does not remove trates I thought so I don't see how this would help. Still worth a try though.
thriceanangel
Active member
There are many reasons that this may be true... Borneman has noticed that the nitrate that has been positively tested for in skimmer collection cups, can be reduced to 0 nitrate readings by adding a few grains of GAC which is puzzling because GAC does remove some NO3, but not this effectively. There are also plenty of cases where the NO4 was exactly the same as tank readings in this study. We're all waiting for the study to be published...
