Holy Pricey Picasso's Batman!

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11376964#post11376964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
Yes but rods fish turn out better with less screwed up gills and faces....

It is called culling. Every batch has some fish that should never enter the market. Some folks cull better then others.

Gets difficult to cull, when you are striving for misbars, unusual shapes, etc. There is a market for such specimens, I am just not sure how large that market is and can't speak to it since I am not in that market; buyer or seller.

 

[Jovreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11376929#post11376929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
Yeah, but ORA is a much larger operation than Rod has...MUCH larger...so that pretty much makes your point ridiculous.

ORA has 1 pair of breeding picasso's ... rod has 1 breeding pair of onyx ... size of their operation makes absolutly no point when both breeders have 1 pair.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11379775#post11379775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jovreefer
ORA has 1 pair of breeding picasso's ... rod has 1 breeding pair of onyx ... size of their operation makes absolutly no point when both breeders have 1 pair.

ORA's buyer base is so much larger then Rods, operational size and demand makes a difference. They have a pipeline for multiple grades of clowns in place.

It is assumptive to presume ORA only has a single pair producing picasso-like markings. Rumor has it picasso-like marking have appeared from typical clowns. Maybe ORA has a few of typical clowns at the operation producing all sorts of things. Anyone know for sure where the stripeless line originated? How about the stubby clowns? etc., etc., etc.

Bottomline: Operational size matters in more ways then folks take for granted. It can be both a strength and a weakness, give both operations their due.

 

[EMBRYOGUY]

jov you are wrong. ora has ALOT more than 1 breeding pair of picassos........lol......they are not where they are at bec they do not plan ahead and take precautions....and so will rodonyx in his own way.

size of operation can definetly make a diff in the kind of care you give to meta babies. this stage of dev. can make a huge diff in the overall quality of clowns. there is absolutely no way ora can give the same care that someone like rod gives. but both have there benefit to the hobby. i love rods clowns and will always admire there dev./body. i also have alot of admiration for ora bec without there direction and drive, our love for clowns would not be where it is today.

but this is why rodonyx clowns by far have the best bodies. most novice clown collectors focus primarly on pattern and often overlook gill deformities/sunken stomachs/overbights. that are often present in larger operations. its just not possible for large operations to cull as effectively as a breeder like rod can.

if i had to buy one clown at any price. it would be rods. his clowns have the most reliable dev.

if rod charged 200 for a clownfish i still think they would command the same attention. and if i had to keep only 1 pair of clowns, it still would be rods, at any price.

i find it interesting that rarely on this forum, anyone talks about the quality of a clownfish s body. most collectors focus on pattern but how often do you hear of rods clowns dying suddenly? again, his clowns have proven/reliable dev. i would much rather pay for this than simply for the pattern. of unproven lineage and dev.

slakker i agree. value is what a person deems

the price of clowns will drop, just as any coral./etc. its the nature of the hobby.

 

[Jovreefer]

Last I herd was ORA only had 1 pair breeding & several "paired" in hopes of breeding (but again I have not been up on things this year due to wedding planning) So they could be breeding now. Just like I know rod had a few pairs he is hoping to breed to.. again I have not herd that they started breeding yet.

I still dont see how operation size has anything to do with price though. I do see how quality of clowns are much better on a smaller breeder.. but would that not bump price of smaller breeders clowns up, not oposite.

& I'm sorry embryo, but stubby bodies bred from 2 siblings is not a superior quality IMO. Its a defect from brother & sister breeding. Please dont get me wrong, I love Rods clowns & I think they are some of the best clowns out there & would reccomend them to anyone looking for onyx. Just the statement that subby bodies are superior is not a fact. Now the health of the clowns & the great care taken to raise these clowns does certianly give them a boost in their lives and make them superior to any wild caught clown in captivity or any mass produced clown.

now I'm gonna back out of the thread, to many topics are on here that are not part of the "price of picasso's" & we'll all just have to agree to disagree here.

 

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11377091#post11377091 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
It is called culling. Every batch has some fish that should never enter the market. Some folks cull better then others.

Gets difficult to cull, when you are striving for misbars, unusual shapes, etc. There is a market for such specimens, I am just not sure how large that market is and can't speak to it since I am not in that market; buyer or seller.

Rod has stated on this forum he does not cull....

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11380678#post11380678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
Rod has stated on this forum he does not cull....

Okay.

 

[GSMguy]

Jov its not that they are stubby they really do have a better shape they are no shorter than any other percula.

 

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11380703#post11380703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
Okay.

I should specify not cull very often i am sure he has pulled a dying fish out of his tank, but he can give water quality and other husbandry more time than a large operation so he has better results.

 

[Jovreefer]

from having 4-5 different wild clowns to try to pair with rods, its very apparent they are stubby when looking at one swimming next to a wild caught clown. & crap I'm still contributing to pulling this thread off track. If anyone wants to discuss body shapes, or small vs. large breeding facilities please feel free to pm or open a new thread

I'm sorry to the original poster, I think I'm the reason this thread got so side tracked.

 

[dzeadow]

No offense to me, I actually like reading the debate, as long as it doesn't come to petty name calling. So whoever mentions my stubby body in someone's large breeding facility again is gonna get it! jk. It'd be interesting to get the facts though since nobody knows for sure but the people that work at ORA. I do feel kind of bad for ORA's "stubby" clowns. I wonder if they're some of the offspring of these inbreeding practices as well and since there's "some" demand for them, ORA's going to sell them. It's pretty obvious these aren't your typical stuff.

 

[traveller7]

See, the original poster thought we were just keeping the thread warm ;>)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11380747#post11380747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jovreefer
If anyone wants to discuss body shapes, or small vs. large breeding facilities please feel free to pm or open a new thread

fwiw: This is a stubby clown

Just one of the interesting variants from ORA:
http://www.orafarm.com/clownfish_species.html

If one was to search RC, a few very interesting posts about the stubbies would show up, not to mention a few debates on culling with some of the resident breeders, some historical discussions regarding the origin of "onyx", etc., etc.

Too bad the picture links from the old days are broken :>(

Cheers folks.

 

[dzeadow]

yeah, that's the one I was talking about

 

[MJI]

Hello GSM,

The LFS advertising is up in Scotland, so maybe not for your visit!

I'm in the north of England, about as far north as you can get before Scotland.

If you PM me, I'll get some info for you on London LFS for you.

 

[Jovreefer]

Ok, If original poster is ok with their thread going in 10 different directions lol.

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I was not meaning rods clowns were "stubby" like ora's "stubby" clown. Just that they are a shorter bodied clown, not to that extreem though. I've got a few pictures at home of 2 rods next to different wild clowns I'll get up later tonight or tomorrow. When your looking at a rods clown you cant visably see the difference unless its swimming next to a regular clown. Again though, I just want to stress, rods clowns are awsome! I'd recomend them to anyone. The in-breeding does not seem to affect their health at all, they are super healthy clowns

Its just a personal preference of mine not to in-breed.

 

[Dragonlady]

Misbar? We know variants.