How do i stop a snow storm????

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6967390#post6967390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdonchann
The alkalinity HAS to be real low or the PH would not be reading low. After a storm the ph and alkalinity will both be low.

Not necessarily true. My Alk was reading high and my pH was reading low (7.8) when I had my problem. But, regardless of where the pH lies, once the Alk/Ca is balanced, it will most likely fix itself.

dugg, just curious, though it's probably pretty warm, have you shut off the AC and opened up the windows in the house to see if there is a big swing in pH readings? Your test of a 9 might mean you have very high Calcium. What brand of salt do you use? Oceanic?

 

[rdonchann]

7.8 is low but not what I was meaning by low. Mine may be 8.3 at the end of the day after the lights have been on. In the morning after no lights and activity it may read 7.8 or 7.9 . Alkalinity and ph are tethered together at the hip. where one goes the other must follow within a certain range. If ph is reading low 7's after a snowstorm the alkalinity is without a doubt low.

 

[captbunzo]

How are you testing your pH? Color comparison test kits are not horribly accurate. I would recommend a good pH pen. Yeah, I know, just more to spend money on. But, IMHO, this is one of those items (like a refractometer) that should be considered a must in this hobby.

Also. Pertaining to doing 50% water changes. First, and on an unimportant note, you'd actually be suprised at how much bacteria actually DO live in the water. But yes, the bacteria in your substrate, rock, on PVC pipes, etc, is more then enough to handle the water change.

However, I'd be more concerned about the enormous water change as I believe it is truely impossible to really match parameters. Sure, you might get temperature, salinity & pH to a matching level. But how about everything else? Nitrate, phosphate, calcium, alkalinity, etc? Some of these are bad and some good parameters of our water. However, the change WILL affect the critters involved.

And that's not even beginning to discuss everything in the water that we can't and don't measure. It's important to realize that discussion of the chemicals that we measure is really a generalization. It's a pick of the most important stuff in the water - good and bad.

For a little more on this, read this short article by Eric Borneman on the maturation process of a reef tank.

 

[Sk8r]

magnesium level I think also works with ca and alk: my tank naturally has a pretty high mg level, maybe because of the rocks I have---not sure---but it means I have to test all 3 to get a real picture of what's going on.

 

[captbunzo]

Yes, Magnesium is the third element of the equation. It's balance isn't quite as critical as Calcium / Alk, but should still be monitored.

Try this calculator for more information.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

 

[dugg]

Yes it is warm here, the air is blowing, but we leave our windows and doors open until about 1pm every day. The tank minus the bad pump is running at 78.5*. I use a pinpoint PH monitor, and i calibrated it tuesday to make sure it wasn't just a bad reading. I use crystal sea marine mix salt. Today my water is back to crystal clear, but the ph is still at 7.15. I still haven't tested the calcium yet, bet i would bet it is way high. How would you lower the calcium level? Everything in the tank looks fine except the xenia. It isn't that bad, but not up like normal.

 

[captbunzo]

You'd lower Calcium level with a water change. Mix up some low calcium water and use that as your change water. That might require buying a small bag of Instant Ocean, or something like that. Might do some research and find the lowest calcium salt mix possible.

Good deal on the pH monitor. That's good - and that you calibrated it recently. I recalibrated mine recently and found it to have gotten way off. Of course, I haven't been storing it in storage solution like I should. Doing better on that now.

Whatever you do, I'd recommend you take it slow, assuming things are doing ok. It'd be worse to shock things again by making a big correction way fast. Remember, nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I would definitely say do it slow. IF your Ca is high, I might also recommend adding Alk gunk to slowly bring up your Alk to a "balanced" level. Even if that means bringing Alk to 15 dkh to match a 600 ppm Calcium and then let your tank slowly take out Ca/Alk through useage or to do regular water changes then. Basically, make it equal but over done, and then bring it down at equal levels until it is an ideal water parameter.

I'm wondering if your DIY rock wall on the tank might have had an adverse effect on this...

 

[rdonchann]

your calcium is not high anymore. It WAS high, that is what the snowstorm took care of.

 

[rdonchann]

I am thinking the lack of calcium and alkalinity management caused this. He can have a wall made out of whatever he wants as long as he keeps the water in balance.

 

[Russ Braaten]

Dugg,

You are shocking the snot out of your entire system. if you try to make it perfect instantly you will mess everything up. Go slow. Use just DI in your top off. and check your calcuim. Slowly get your calcium to where it needs to be and let the system sit for a week or so. Then see how it settles out. Less change is far better than perfect levels. Especially since you can't get perfect levels instantly.

 

[dugg]

I am biggining to wonder if maybe this bag of salt i just opened may have issues. Everything was fine until the temp shot up on me last weekend. I decided that i would do a water change, then everything went downhill from there. I changed another 5 gallons this morning, and the PH has dropped even lower. It is at 7.04 right now. The lights have been on for 3 hrs, and it is still dropping. Everything seems to be fine though.

Right now the spg is 1.024
KH = 9
no3 = 5ppm
temp = 78.5
amonia = 0
nitrite = 0
calcium = ?
mag = ?
Everthing is normal except the PH, the KH is normally around 11, so 9 doesn't seem that far off to me. Hopefully i can get a few minutes to go get some test kits tonight if the wife isn't loaded with homework when she gets home from school. I now know why we have kids at 18 to 20 years old instead of 40 lol. I wipe butts and fix bottles from 6am to 9pm, then i have to play poker from 9pm to 3am, or until i make my daily quota, so i sleep here and there and be thankfull that i don't have a real job to go to also lol. A 7 month old that gets 3 nebulizer treatments of steroids per day and a 3 year old that is still in diapers, doesn't talk, or feed himself and has major behavior problems is a full time job times 3.

 

[dugg]

Ok, i got a test kit. Never woulda guessed it lol.
cal = 260
I bought a 2 part system of ocean's blend cal/alk. I added 20 ml of each as directed on the bottle. I will take it slow until i get it ballanced and up to proper levels. I guess me and limewater are gonna part company at this point. From now on i will use the 2 part system, and top off with RO/DI.

Does anybody know if this ocean's blend is any good? it seems to be the only brand the stores carry around here. If not, when it is gone i will order from the internet and get something else.

 

[captbunzo]

I'd not use it as you can do something extraordinarily similar with a DIY recipe by Randy Holmes-Farley.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Well, that's what test kits are for. And we all are often surprised as the reults. Well, now you know you need to add Ca. You can do this how you are, or you can invest in Calcium Chloride such as Dowflake or Turbo Calcium. But that is another story. Definitely read up on "Zone 3" located here. It explains most likely why your tank got this way. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6969906#post6969906 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dugg
I guess me and limewater are gonna part company at this point. From now on i will use the 2 part system, and top off with RO/DI.

Definitely don't give up on it. It is by far a very good way to add equal amounts of Carbonate and Calcium back into the system. Your tank just might use Calcium quicker than Carbonate. I would get things back in line over the next few weeks, and then dose limewater as your top off and test Ca/Alk every week or two. If Alk or Ca start to get out of line, teach it a lesson by adding a little of the two part system. This will save you money in the long run because your two part will last a long time.

 

[captbunzo]

I wonder how crazy it would be to use limewater via an auto-topoff system, and then do weekly supplementation of Randy's new & improved recipe.

 

[dugg]

Even after adding the 2 part additive, my PH is still crashing. It is at 6.90 now and still falling. I am baffled though, everything still looks fine. I figured it would all be dead by this point. I checked my monitor again, and it is reading right on the money. How can all the coral still be kicking at this PH level?

 

[scott0615]

Your monitor is incorrect, everything would not look fine with a pH of 6.9. Double check it against other kits. How old is the probe and calibrating solution?

 

[dugg]

The probe is 6 months old, and the solution i calibrated it with i just bought. I just finished double checking it tonight. It is right, and still nothing is looking bad. Atleast it does the calibration fluid right. If i am not forgetting something. It calibrates to what is marked on the pouches right? 7.00 and 4.00 ?

The PH is down to 6.78 now. I am almost afraid to let the lights go off.

 

[dugg]

Everything is still looking fine, with full extension also.