How do we Fight the Name Game?

[SushiGirl]

I was wondering when all this business started. I took my tank down in late 2004, moved in January 2005, and didn't put a tank back up until last October. I was shocked at the coral craziness. I didn't even know what a frag disc was LOL. Everything back then came on rock rubble or actual rocks, which was so much easier to place and more natural looking. When I bought my zoas in 2002 I bought a big rock for $20 online that was called an orange polyp rock. I happily watched my decorator crab take a bunch of them to wear.

I think I'm pretty fortunate that we've managed to find one LFS (of more than a dozen in this area) that doesn't sell by name, sells at fair prices (for the times, anyway...$20 for a completely full frag plug of 3 kinds of zoas vs. the $20 rock I bought in 2002 LOL). There's the occasional tiny frag for $50 in there, but there's no "brand" name on the glass, just color and coral. You either know what it is or you ask. I've only seen maybe 2 things in there listed for more than $180, and they're big (I mean won't fit in a 55 gallon tank big) colonies of LPS. I don't buy those little $50 things, just no bang for my buck in it.

It's not just corals, either. I started with dry rock and no hitchhikers. I found one store with a bunch of stomatellas that came in on something. They reluctantly sold me 2 tiny ones after much begging. $2.50 each. They've spawned in my tank, and as a result of having to pay $2.50 each for tiny stomatellas from a store a lot of local club members frequent, I'll be giving them away to as many members as possible when they get bigger LOL.

Most of the threads I see on forums now are all about instant gratification, brand names, and tank perfection. I blame the fact that somehow this hobby became more mainstream and of course people are used to getting what they want, right now, and having it be perfect. If it doesn't fulfill those things for them, they start a sell thread after 8 months to a year because their sand won't stay white or they got a little hair algae LOL. Ummm, wrong hobby!!!

 

[C0rp]

I agree with most of what's said as a consumer of course. Its silly that these corals go for so much. But to play devils advocate for just a moment...if you don't want to pay it, then don't buy it. Look somewhere else, or find something else. Someone else who wants it more than you will buy it. Its economics. Its supply demand. Its money. Its the way the world works. Many many people have money to spend and don't care what something cost..if they want it, they buy it. Myself included I admit. Maybe I am part of the problem, but I'm not going to stop buying corals that I want and like. If I was poorer I suppose I would complain more too...but thankfully I am not. I am fairly new to the hobby and not accustomed to the "cheap prices of yester-year" as well, so it doesn't bother me as much either I suppose.

 

[B-Willz]

A bunch of us in one of our local clubs have been giving away or selling cheap to each other. I know it is making the stores and the big fraggers mad, but we are all tired of paying for a name. This weekend I paid $10 for a garf bonsai and $5 for a pink lemonade. Yeah I used the names to describe them but didn't pay for it.

 

[C0rp]

A bunch of us in one of our local clubs have been giving away or selling cheap to each other. I know it is making the stores and the big fraggers mad, but we are all tired of paying for a name. This weekend I paid $10 for a garf bonsai and $5 for a pink lemonade. Yeah I used the names to describe them but didn't pay for it.

That's the way to do it!

 

[stevie-o]

reefers should just sell to other reefers it's a lot cheaper, and you can trust them more well most of em.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Another way around the name game-

Why dont we know where these polyps are coming from? I am sure different types of polyps are coming from one place or another, but where is this info?

The name game, before it came along for price jacking, came around for no better way to describe a polyp. You can say Green center, green skirt, and circular mouth all day- but still be describing 3 or 4 very different polyps.

Now- if the info was easier to find, we might be able to say the vietnames Green center, green skirt, and circular mouth polyp- and know exactly which we were describing, and be much more educated in the process. Would probly have a much better idea of the said polyps requirements also......just somthing I have been thinking about lately.

 

[MikeandNicole]

I don't think you will ever beat the name game. Personally I think it actually makes things easier. For example my ppe zoos were not doing well so I came on here and found a thread with ppe in the title, moved them down and they look great. As an earlier poster said there are many types of a specific color out ther and a name gives you a quick Id.

Now what I think annoys people more than names is prices which is something we can do without. The first step is patience. If you see zoos you like wait, they all come down in price. Also find like minded reffers locally and trade and swap. I have given away many a named zoa to friends in my local club to spread them around and see how they do in different systems. It also provides a backup in case of castrophe. My local club also has a dbtc which is nice.

If we lose the high prices then maybe the attitude of fragging and flipping will also diminish. This attitude is what hurts zoas the most and attracts the wrong crowd to zoo keeping. In summary keep the names lose the prices, lose the flippers.

 

[ibefishy]

This is one reason I dont pay top dollar for zoas or any corals. I had a couple of frags given to me when I started reefing years ago, now when someone from the local club is wanting something, if I have it I will give them a small piece to try to help them along. A buddy of mine set up a tank a year ago and had 1 coral in it, it was a trumpet coral, he still to this weekend only had that 1 trumpet colony, he stopped by to check out my tank and was impressed at what he saw and said he wished he could get his looking like mine. He mentioned he was going to go and pick up some corals from the LFS. I told him not to and gave him 4 nice frags and a rock with 3 large rics. He offered to pay, I told him no, just try your best at meeting their requiremnts and when they get big and you can frag them do so and pass them along to someone else for the same price you got them for. Upon leaving he said if he ever gets anything cool that I dont have he could frag it and return the favor. I told him thats the way it should be. I felt better about giving away a couple of frags to a friend than anytime I ever sold one.

 

[2006]

or "Bring It Back the Other Way!" -RATM

I work at a LFS and constantly battle the names. I try not to use them or encourage their use, and only sell polyps by description, but the truth of the mater is I could probably make 3 times as much by selling "named" and by the polyp.

I'm guessing the owner of the store doesn't read RC. :eek2:

 

[kichimark]

The name game is not the problem. Look at all the names we have for dogs. If you have a "golden retriever" and do not want to call it that would you talk to other dog owners or vet saying you just own a medium dog with long golden hair? Names are good for identification purposes.

The problem lays with the "lineage" and when the names are used to hype. It is the "INTRODUCING XYZ from JOHN DOE....limited edition" blah blah blah.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

On another note-

I do see the name game, at least in polyps, working against itself. Some of the "big namers" are even speeding up the process. Look at all these names that are getting tossed around these days. I remember 6 or 7 years ago, the names were recognizeable as a specific polyp....

Nowadays folk are arguing the names of a single polyp in ID forums, and guess what?

They are all right!! LOL!!!

There are like 2-6 different names for the same polyp these days, and its getting worse by the minute!! Some of these vendors are tossing out names faster than I can read them. At first, I thought- this is insane!!!! After a bit of thinking though, I can to an unexpected conclusion-

All these names are going to get things soooo confused, as far as the name game goes, that you wont be able to comprehend what is what any more. I see the whole name deal turning around a ruining itself in no time.

All those that see it as never ending- I see it different. The name game, most likely will ruin itself. We just have to wait. The namers are going to ruin it themselves in no time, at the rate its going.

Prices though, are another matter......thats going to take some serious change to get back to what it should (ethicaly) be.

 

[kichimark]

On another note-

I do see the name game, at least in polyps, working against itself. Some of the "big namers" are even speeding up the process. Look at all these names that are getting tossed around these days. I remember 6 or 7 years ago, the names were recognizeable as a specific polyp....

Nowadays folk are arguing the names of a single polyp in ID forums, and guess what?

They are all right!! LOL!!!

There are like 2-6 different names for the same polyp these days, and its getting worse by the minute!! Some of these vendors are tossing out names faster than I can read them. At first, I thought- this is insane!!!! After a bit of thinking though, I can to an unexpected conclusion-

All these names are going to get things soooo confused, as far as the name game goes, that you wont be able to comprehend what is what any more. I see the whole name deal turning around a ruining itself in no time.

All those that see it as never ending- I see it different. The name game, most likely will ruin itself. We just have to wait. The namers are going to ruin it themselves in no time, at the rate its going.

Prices though, are another matter......thats going to take some serious change to get back to what it should (ethicaly) be.

Very true. Some people are getting carried away with the names. I do believe some polyps such as people eaters or dragon eyes and tubbs blue are here to stay.

 

[Zoalander]

I love the name game, I think it's much easier then trying to describe it. I also don't even mind paying a little extra for the ones I really love. The thing that kills me is the price per polyp but you can't tell me you wont pay more for the more sought after palys and zoas. I cant walk into a single LFS in Colorado Springs and buy PPE or sunny delights so are they worth more? I don't know but I'll pay more for them, are they worth $20+ per polyp, no! But I'll pay more for those then lets say eagle eye zoas that I can find any where. Its very simple, the harder they are to buy, the more they will cost you. Remember when superman monti was $100 a frag, now they are $10. If you want it now pay, or wait half a decade.

 

[rogersb]

The name game is not the problem. Look at all the names we have for dogs. If you have a "golden retriever" and do not want to call it that would you talk to other dog owners or vet saying you just own a medium dog with long golden hair? Names are good for identification purposes.

The problem lays with the "lineage" and when the names are used to hype. It is the "INTRODUCING XYZ from JOHN DOE....limited edition" blah blah blah.

^ This

 

[gh0st]

Well Zoalander, the Reason they are so hard to find is because of artificial scarcity.

These polyps are no less common than any other commonly available polyp. At the wholesale level, they all sell for roughly the same price per colony. $15-30ish on average.

The problem is "Johnny the Frag Pimp" who lives in LA drives down to the wholesalers each shipment day, buys up every last nice looking colony, chops them up, takes a pic under blue LED's, post a pic to a forum/blog with a snappy name and LE or RARE in the title, and the speculation feeding frenzy insues.

Nobody every seems to notice that they have a seemingly endless supply of 1-3 polyp frags of this "brand new and limited edition flavor of the day" polyps.

I for one, have had enough.

I refuse to buy any "named/LE" or "per polyp" frags. As soon as somebody says "this is a Conan's Jock Strap that sells for $$ per polyp." I walk away.

Any new"Hyped" polyps that appear, I walk away.

At the LFS I manage, I just walked around the Coral section and removed the few "Names' that were posted. I dropped the prices on every last one to a flat $20 per frag. There are Purple Deaths, Deepwater Red People Eaters, Lunar Eclipses, Magicians, Mohawks, Fire and Ices, and many others I never bothered to find the name on. Every last one has at least 7-40 polyps.

I'm off this train, it's time for a better way.

And for the record, No, we don't sell online.

Let the Revolution Begin!

 

[XSharkboyX]

well zoalander, the reason they are so hard to find is because of artificial scarcity.

These polyps are no less common than any other commonly available polyp. At the wholesale level, they all sell for roughly the same price per colony. $15-30ish on average.

The problem is "johnny the frag pimp" who lives in la drives down to the wholesalers each shipment day, buys up every last nice looking colony, chops them up, takes a pic under blue led's, post a pic to a forum/blog with a snappy name and le or rare in the title, and the speculation feeding frenzy insues.

Nobody every seems to notice that they have a seemingly endless supply of 1-3 polyp frags of this "brand new and limited edition flavor of the day" polyps.

I for one, have had enough.

I refuse to buy any "named/le" or "per polyp" frags. As soon as somebody says "this is a conan's jock strap that sells for $$ per polyp." i walk away.

Any new"hyped" polyps that appear, i walk away.

At the lfs i manage, i just walked around the coral section and removed the few "names' that were posted. I dropped the prices on every last one to a flat $20 per frag. There are purple deaths, deepwater red people eaters, lunar eclipses, magicians, mohawks, fire and ices, and many others i never bothered to find the name on. Every last one has at least 7-40 polyps.

I'm off this train, it's time for a better way.

And for the record, no, we don't sell online.

Let the revolution begin!

+1!

 

[NyReefNoob]

refuse to buy any "named/LE" or "per polyp" frags. As soon as somebody says "this is a Conan's Jock Strap that sells for $$ per polyp." I walk away.

lol you mean LE doesnt really mean Limited Edition are that certain people's names arent worth the paper they are wrote on, i will say this and find it funny cause i do get a few zoa's here and there before some of the vendors here do and get a chance to throw a name and crazy price on them so i wait and then sell them for regular price after they post the crazy price and watch them drop their price's. funny seeing them post 5 polyps for 100+ then turn around and post 5-10 for 10-20

 

[The Escaped Ape]

There is a need for names commonly used to help people identify what they own, how to care for it etc. The problem is that, as far as I can see, there is such endless variety in zoa color variations that people will assign the same name to similar but different varieties and different names to the same variety growing differently in different conditions. The names for the few exceptions to this (e.g. the People Eaters, which are relatively easy to name reasonably reliably) tend to get used quite a lot as a result. The People Eater names are also fairly simple and easy to remember.

So I can see the utility of having some common names with are useful identifiers rather than marketing tools (even names like Fire and Ice or Tubbs Blue aren't that bad). But I really hate the naming thing when it comes to just giving a cool name to a particular type of zoa someone has in their own tank and hasn't seen elsewhere before, particularly when it moves from being a slightly cool, but basically descriptive name to something out of a cocktail menu from a bar. I tend to just call my zoas (which tend to be "unnamed" as I am not in the US and therefore get different varieties than people here) "greens" "blues" and, at my most descriptive "olive greens with orange centers".

 

[organism]

The name game is not the problem. Look at all the names we have for dogs. If you have a "golden retriever" and do not want to call it that would you talk to other dog owners or vet saying you just own a medium dog with long golden hair? Names are good for identification purposes.

What if you could sell the same golden retriever 40 different times just by putting it under different light, feeding it different food and calling it 40 different names? Are those names good for identification purposes, or are they all just going to be the same golden retriever once they get normal food and light? Either way, now they're owned by people who maybe didn't want or realize that they were getting a golden retriever.

 

[Tenor]

What if you could sell the same golden retriever 40 different times just by putting it under different light, feeding it different food and calling it 40 different names? Are those names good for identification purposes, or are they all just going to be the same golden retriever once they get normal food and light? Either way, now they're owned by people who maybe didn't want or realize that they were getting a golden retriever.

Can you identify of which coral (Zoa) having 40 different names after feeding it different food and light?

No offence, just my curiousity. Thanks