How do you know when you are finished cooking your rock?

[percula99]

I started cooking my rock on November 4th 2010. That is almost 4 months. I started my tank 12 years ago so much of my rock was quite old and clogged and I had a serious hair algae problem developing. My phosphates were reading 0.25 when I started. I had cleaned the rock twice a week for the first two weeks and once a week ever since. I figure I have cleaned my rocks 18 times now and I am still getting a reading of 0.25 for my phosphates and between 5-10 for nitrates. I can live with the nitrate reading but my phosphates still have not budged. Every time I clean my rock the water is filthy afterwards. Just how much dirt can be stored inside this rock? It looks very clean but looks can be deceiving. I still have nice coraline algae and some sponge on some rocks. The rock has been cooked in complete darkness.

Has anyone had this type of timeline or can anyone offer any insight as to why it is taking so long or how much longer this will take?

 

[iamwrasseman]

the rock very well may be breaking down more each time you clean it .

 

[wmdick_2007]

Rock leaches phosphate --- I have read about : do not worry about it as the coral and other life forms will pull the phosphate from the water. 2. Sump or refugium as a sink for the phoshate.

If it was alive it contains phosphate --- coral here : http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/students/coral/coral3.htm

And here for live rock: http://www.tampareef.com/liverock.html

 

[ReeferBill]

Cooking Live Rock?

Cooking Live Rock?

Hi pecular99 ; I also cooked my rock in complete darkness for over 2 months . I did a 100% water change every week after testing for phosphates and added a Phosban Reactor from Two Little Fishes with Phosban Ferric Oxide Media . I also increased my refugium pump to 8 to 10 times the turnover rate of the total gallons of entire system. I also had a powerhead circulating water in the container cooking the rock. I finally won the battle of the dreaded hair algea....:dance: P.s. I also shook out each rock before every weekly 100% water change one by one with the power head and rinsed out cooking container. I added the rock to my display when Phosphate reading was ZERO. IT seemed to take forever.:sad2:Good Luck!!!!

 

[percula99]

iamwrasseman... Hi Dave, it's nice to hear fro you again. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "the rock very well may be breaking down "? Every time I clean it the water continues to get very dirty (after 18 cleanings when does this stop?) and I am still getting bits of stones and sand coming out of the rock, but the rock itself appears quite intact.

wmdick_2007...Unfortunately I do have to worry about the phosphates as it is the leading reason why I have an out of control hair algae problem in my tank. I started with a phosphate reading of 0.25 and after 18 cleanings that reading hasn't budged. I am concerned that if I put that rock back in my display I will just go back to a hair algae infested reef. After all this work that is the last thing I want.

ReeferBill... Thanks for the encouraging words. You have described the exact process I have been using. You say you got the phosphates down to ZERO. That is what I am striving for, if I can ever get there. I am hoping for the same results you got.

 

[trueperc]

Hello all, I am a friend of percula99 and also started cooking my rock about 1 week after he did.
I too am wondering, when do you know you are done? Is testing the water for phos and nitrates a good way to know when you are done? But I also know that phos test kits only test inorganics and whats most likely dirting the water is organic phos, so the signal we are done when the water stays clear?
I read in most threads say it only took a couple of months but with how long its taking me and percual99 and with how dirty our water is after rinsing the rocks and the readings we are getting, its starting to get a little tiresome. Like he said, what should we be focusing on to know we are done? Myself my reading are 0 for nitrates but .25 for phos.

 

[iamwrasseman]

what i mean by it breaking down is that live rock is basically dead coral skeletons piled on top of each other and overgrowing each other and compacted by the weight that is forced upon it throughout many hundreds of years . so its not really that hard and can be broken into pieces pretty easily so when you are scrubbing it you are somewhat sanding off the exterior over and over again .

 

[dogstar74]

What are your plans for the tank after you get the rock cooked?

If this is going to be added to an established tank, then could you start by putting this rock into a temporary tank, add lights to it like you would if it was the display and see if the HA returns. If so, then back into solitary confinement.

Also, have you thought of a Phos reduction method to be used on the future display tank, such as Biopellets, Vodka dosing, or Algal turf scrubber? If you are planning to use one of these methods, then you could set that up on your temporary tank as see if you could keep this under control for a couple of weeks. If all is well, then into the display they go and keep doing what you were doing in the temp tank.

This temp tank doesn't need to have any kind of fancy aquascaping, no fish or corals. Just the Live rock and lighting. See what happens.

 

[iamwrasseman]

+1~very good suggestion there

 

[percula99]

iamwrasseman...I scrubbed the LR the first time I put it into my garbage can for cooking. I got lots of hair algae and built up dirt off it then, but since then I have only scrubbed a few rocks occasionally that have yellow sponge still clinging to the rock. As I dunk and swish the rock each week I end up with some sand and small pieces of stone at the bottom of the garbage can I used. Other than that the LR is quite solid and really clean looking. I dunk and swish each piece on average 25 times in the big garbage can, and 25 times each in three consecutive buckets. That's 100 dunks and swishes for each rock every time I clean them, and I have done so 18 times now. That's 1800 dunks and swishes for every rock I am cooking. Why is there any dirt left in there and where is it coming from? It's enough to drive me crazy.

dogstar74...I am planning on putting the LR once finished back into my display. I am cleaning 125 pounds right now, with yet another 125 pounds or more still in my display. I have decided not to cook the secong batch as I don't think I could stand doing another batch at this rate. I will put this second batch into a garbage can with bleach and kill it. I will then rinse it really well and put it back into my garbage can with muratic acid to etch off any bleach still clinging to the rock, then rinse again. After I am satisfied I have gotten rid of all the bleach and acid I will let it air dry and then re-scape my tank. The cooked LR will be enough to seed the rock I killed and I should have all LR again in several months. I have used a dual phosban reactor in the past but found about six months ago the GFO would turn rock solid after a week or ten days. I would have to take a screw driver to it to break it up and get the old GFO out. I put in new GFO and the same thing would happen. I started a few threads on RC (and other boards) and everyone said I needed more flow, but beleive me, I had plenty of flow. I finally had to throw out my phosban reactors because I simply couldn't get the hard stuff out anymore even after soaking in vinegar for a week. I have just set up an algae turf scrubber this past weekend and I am hoping this will help where the phosban reactor failed.

 

[iamwrasseman]

its probably clean enough right now but as i said its pretty soft and you are "eroding"it everytime that you handle it . i have some base rock that is like granite in hardness but most of my other rock is somewhat delicate and soft . also the muriatic acid is going to further break down the rock .

 

[waldomas]

By "dunking and swishing" your rock "with sponges", would you not be killing the sponges and creating more nitrates and phosphates?
Also, aren't there worms in the rock that burrow thru and break down the rock somewhat?
I beleive the "dirt" you continuously find after every water change is a result of this and possibly other causes of "rock shedding" and might continue as long as the organisms (either dead or alive) causing the issue.

 

[percula99]

iamwrasseman...I have to agree with you. I do beleive I am erroding it every time I clean it. It is the only explanation that makes sense. After all these cleanings and I am still getting that much dirt coming out of the rock has to be because of it breaking down. I am left with one dilema though. What to do about the 0.25 phosphate reading. Because my GFO turned to cement in my reactors I have run GFO on my cooking process in a canister filter and gotten a ZERO phosphate reading. When I take it off I get 0.25 again. I will probably always get a reading without GFO. Do you run GFO in your display? What is your reading with/without?

waldomas...There are only two rocks with sponge on them so out of 125 pounds that is minimal and it hasn't receded at all since I started cooking it. This sponge grows in the dark anyway so it isn't dying off. Sorry I didn't explain that before. I do still get worms and starfish in my dirty water so there is definitely still life in there and I agree this breakdown will probably continue forever. But as ReeferBill mentioned in an earlier post, he did manage to get his phosphates to ZERO following the exact same process I am using.

 

[trueperc]

I will also add that my rock has no worms and sponges on it as I started my rock cooking after a complete tank crash when I moved. Everthing died in my tank even all worms and life in the rock. Before I started had any algea on the rock. When I started cooking I was adding a bacteria source and still do when I do the water change.

 

[wmdick_2007]

Maybe, do as the German's and keep it in the dark for 6-months or so. I would not use acid, boil, or excessive scrubbing.

After a few months of pruning my Chato it halted it's fast growth. Removal of my UGF in the reef display almost killed it. I use a little Phos-ban and find no problems with PO4 or NO3,

 

[percula99]

wmdick_2007...My rock has been in the dark for four months as of today. When I first started cooking it I thought I would be doing this for two months and I would be good to go. As per my overall plans I know the rock will be in there for at least another month. Where I go from there I will determine at that time. For me it is all dependent on my phosphate reading. If it is still at 0.25 then I don't think it is ready and I will need to go longer. The muratic acid I am planning on using can be compared to vinegar and I only plan on soaking the rock in there for a couple of hours at best. I will be doing this on the rock in my tank, not on the rock I am cooking.

 

[wmdick_2007]

IMHO --- That rock --- If it was Coral or anything alive has Phosphate throughout --- cleaning the outside will not help. Some rock just have a little more PO4 than others --- I might leave it in the dark to kill off what Algae I could.

 

[percula99]

wmdick_2007...I posted thie earlier in this thread. It should explain why I am using the acid:

"I am planning on putting the LR once finished back into my display. I am cleaning 125 pounds right now, with yet another 125 pounds or more still in my display. I have decided not to cook the secong batch as I don't think I could stand doing another batch at this rate. I will put this second batch into a garbage can with bleach and kill it. I will then rinse it really well and put it back into my garbage can with muratic acid to etch off any bleach still clinging to the rock, then rinse again. After I am satisfied I have gotten rid of all the bleach and acid I will let it air dry and then re-scape my tank. The cooked LR will be enough to seed the rock I killed and I should have all LR again in several months."

 

[Nanz]

How did you clean the rock? If you want to remove the phosphates then clean the rock in multiple dips of muratic acid (HCl) It will remove all the phosphate. Otherwise you just scrubbed the rock and really never treated the phosphate problem. Put 5:1 water:HCl in a bucket and swish the rock around and let soak for 15 mins. *warning* Do this in a well ventilated area and do not breath the fumes. Also wear gloves and eye protection. Then repeat a couple more times until the water is clear. The first time you do it your water will become black. Empty this bucket and mix up a new batch for each dipping and soaking. Hcl will eat the outer layer of the rock where most of the phosphates reside thus cleansing the rock of phosphates. After you have cleaned the rock you should cycle the rocks in a tub and dose with bacteria to help populate the rocks. Keep the tub covered and do 100% water changes weekly. After 4 weeks your rocks should be cycled and phosphate free.

Sorry I didnt read the last post. The acid will work and has revived several of my friends tanks. Whenever I buy rock I always use this method of cleaning.

 

[percula99]

I would really like to get off the acid topic please. That is what I plan on doing with the LR in my display after I finish cooking the rock I am now working with. Can we get more comments on the cooking process itself and the length of time it is taking, or enhancements to the process to help speed it up. Thanks. Where as I do appreciate the time people take to post comments, I need to stay on topic.