ReefBuilderNJ
In Memoriam
MUCH HARDER AND MUCH MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE
How hard are marine tanks really?
- Thread starter ggenz
- Start date
I don't agree with this but you have to take everything with a grain of salt, I've had a FW planted tank and it was the easiest thing I've ever done, way easier than salt. I'm sure you could get some difficult plants and they require a lot of work but if you get easy ones, then the tank practically takes care of its self. This could be said with salt too, get something easy and don't have to really do anything to it. But with my tank, I changed the water in it like once a month, just kept it topped off and feed the fish and never lost fish.
Chris
It’s a hard question to answer because it can be looked at it from so many angles. The two biggest that come to mind are cost, maintenance if those are an issue then I would go with freshwater, but I also think of things like saltwater usually has much more interesting fish plants and corals, so a SW might hold there interest much longer.
I guess a question I have is; what is the main objective you are trying to teach these kids, the relationship between plants, animals, and bacteria; or more of an enjoyment factor and teaching them how to run their own setup?
Chris C
I guess a question I have is; what is the main objective you are trying to teach these kids, the relationship between plants, animals, and bacteria; or more of an enjoyment factor and teaching them how to run their own setup?
Chris C
ggenz
New member
Really, id say both,
-we are trying to get them interested in the hobby(how to run a setup, how much fun it is),
-we are trying to liven up a classroom, and
-lastly, it should be educational, so we should be able to explain all of the different biological processes and the organism's relationships.
The school wants the setup to be started by students and run by students. A few of the teachers there also have tanks though, so they can help.
We are thinking FOWLR because that can have cool fish, it costs a little less and it isn't as tedious as a reef.
-we are trying to get them interested in the hobby(how to run a setup, how much fun it is),
-we are trying to liven up a classroom, and
-lastly, it should be educational, so we should be able to explain all of the different biological processes and the organism's relationships.
The school wants the setup to be started by students and run by students. A few of the teachers there also have tanks though, so they can help.
We are thinking FOWLR because that can have cool fish, it costs a little less and it isn't as tedious as a reef.
mr pink floyd
New member
never done FW, but i think SW is easy, im running a mixed reef(mostly SPS and zoas) all have good coloring and good growth, but i have to admit, with school back again, and practice every day after school, i have gone downhill a little bit on my husbandry, some sps are losing their colors a little, but thats about it, nothing a little TLC cant solve for after the season
id say go for it, i started with my 29 FOWLR over 2 years ago, and it quickly went form softie-sps reef, you can tell when you are ready for a change IMO
id say go for it, i started with my 29 FOWLR over 2 years ago, and it quickly went form softie-sps reef, you can tell when you are ready for a change IMO
Apocallypse
New member
I would think from an educational point of view teaching 7th and 8th graders how to keep and maintain a saltwater reef would be benificial.
If you think about all the positives that come out of teaching a reef tank.
from the the :
nitrogen cycle to simulating a natural enviroment in a contain aquarium. Different methods to accomplish this
fish
corals
Understanding of our reefs and how delicate they are.
balances in nature and how everything in a reef is needed to meet a certain equalibrium.
i can go on.
---ohh and maintance...ya all kids need to learn to some degree .. if they can't clean up their damn room, why not try teaching them by maintaining a saltwater tank or reef.
this can go on and on.
7th and 8th graders are not stupid, immature maybe but they are more then capable of learning reef systems.
heck you might be doing the world a favor by educating them now. they might respect what they learn later on.
so for me its a resonding yes.....
acroreef123
In Memoriam
I was in 7th grade when I started my first tank( a 29g reef) and am 16 now. Refering to the subject of teaching the kids how to maintain it, I really dont think there is a definite answer to your question. Its like asking "is it possible to keep coral with this light" its way too vauge, all kids are going to be different. but from my experience if you can get them interested in it the SW aquarium hobby is not one that they will likely out-grow.
acroree123
acroree123
Apocallypse
New member
I should apologies, i might have jump the gun with my response. And it's an idea i've been tossing around in my head for my daughters school.
It should not be base around the hobby per say and every aspect of it. You and many other people are right you cannot force a hobby on anybody especially a classroom of junior high students.
but
from an educational stand point. showing them how to setup a saltwater aquarium and maintain it would very benifical.
This would require that who ever is teaching the students have a firm grasp of saltwater tanks or reef tanks, it is up to this person to know specific details about how a aquarium works.
Students do not need to know how a skimmer in full details... venturi vs needle wheel or spray injection ect.. If you where to tell them what a skimmer does and what it is trying to mimic in nature this would be benifical.
showing them how to setup a aquarium correctly and how the nitrogen cycle works and having the students maintain it. Even give them an oppertunity to try and select the type of fish or corals to put in the tank. Again the teacher will have to explain what is approriate and not for a specific setup of course. but also explain why they can and cannot do it without going overboard in details.
So in short its not about a "hobby" is about education.. and its fun or can be.
saltwater fish/Reefing is also not as hard as some believe, but it does require a great deal of studying and exploring.
Education though the hobby saltwater tanking is what i believe the auther of this thread is trying to get forth.
I'm actaully planning something similar i'm currently working on setting up two tanks.
a student display tank and and summer tank
the summer tank would be a full tank setup that the fish and inverts and corals can live during the summer. This tank would be maintained my myself or a responisble teacher.
The student display tank would be build by the students and maintained by the students. this would include setting up the tank, run though the cycling process, testing water quality so on and so forth. When this is accomplished fish would go from the summer tank to the student display tank where the students would help maintain it.
what i'm trying to figure out are corals, and inverts and properly transfer them from one tank to another and back at the end of the year. the student display tank would be broken back down and prepared for the next year.
the the other thing is cost.
anyway thats my two cents.
It should not be base around the hobby per say and every aspect of it. You and many other people are right you cannot force a hobby on anybody especially a classroom of junior high students.
but
from an educational stand point. showing them how to setup a saltwater aquarium and maintain it would very benifical.
This would require that who ever is teaching the students have a firm grasp of saltwater tanks or reef tanks, it is up to this person to know specific details about how a aquarium works.
Students do not need to know how a skimmer in full details... venturi vs needle wheel or spray injection ect.. If you where to tell them what a skimmer does and what it is trying to mimic in nature this would be benifical.
showing them how to setup a aquarium correctly and how the nitrogen cycle works and having the students maintain it. Even give them an oppertunity to try and select the type of fish or corals to put in the tank. Again the teacher will have to explain what is approriate and not for a specific setup of course. but also explain why they can and cannot do it without going overboard in details.
So in short its not about a "hobby" is about education.. and its fun or can be.
saltwater fish/Reefing is also not as hard as some believe, but it does require a great deal of studying and exploring.
Education though the hobby saltwater tanking is what i believe the auther of this thread is trying to get forth.
I'm actaully planning something similar i'm currently working on setting up two tanks.
a student display tank and and summer tank
the summer tank would be a full tank setup that the fish and inverts and corals can live during the summer. This tank would be maintained my myself or a responisble teacher.
The student display tank would be build by the students and maintained by the students. this would include setting up the tank, run though the cycling process, testing water quality so on and so forth. When this is accomplished fish would go from the summer tank to the student display tank where the students would help maintain it.
what i'm trying to figure out are corals, and inverts and properly transfer them from one tank to another and back at the end of the year. the student display tank would be broken back down and prepared for the next year.
the the other thing is cost.
anyway thats my two cents.
lllosingit
New member
I've had aquariums since I was about eight years old, I stuck with fresh water for about 20yrs because I was always told how hard and expensive saltwater was.
That all changed when I went to buy a 120 gallon tank that had been setup as a fish only saltwater tank, It was a dry setup but everything I needed came with it including all pumps, powerheads, skimmer,200lbs of dry base rock and 2 buckets of salt.
To make a long story short I got a few books and set everything up and never looked back. I never found it to be any harder than my freshwater setups and the payoff was tenfold.
There is just so much more life to saltwater than fresh.
I remember staying up for hours looking at all the new life after I got the "Package" from Tampa Bay saltwater to seed my tank after it had cycled.
I've always been on a very tight budget and my first setup costs less than some people spend on a skimmer alone.
I bought a few frags and later traded other reefers to get a variety.
If you are paying out of your own pocket just look in the local paper and online (I have a local forum here on RC You migh to?) for someone selling out or upgrading. You can save a considerable amount if you do your homework so you know what your buying and what it's worth.
P.S. If you really want to keep them interested consider buying the package from Tampa Bay Saltwater , The variety of life contained will keep then busy for hours.
They are a sponsor here on RC just take a few minutes or a few hours =-) to read up on it at the Tampa Bay Saltwater forum
That all changed when I went to buy a 120 gallon tank that had been setup as a fish only saltwater tank, It was a dry setup but everything I needed came with it including all pumps, powerheads, skimmer,200lbs of dry base rock and 2 buckets of salt.
To make a long story short I got a few books and set everything up and never looked back. I never found it to be any harder than my freshwater setups and the payoff was tenfold.
There is just so much more life to saltwater than fresh.
I remember staying up for hours looking at all the new life after I got the "Package" from Tampa Bay saltwater to seed my tank after it had cycled.
I've always been on a very tight budget and my first setup costs less than some people spend on a skimmer alone.
I bought a few frags and later traded other reefers to get a variety.
If you are paying out of your own pocket just look in the local paper and online (I have a local forum here on RC You migh to?) for someone selling out or upgrading. You can save a considerable amount if you do your homework so you know what your buying and what it's worth.
P.S. If you really want to keep them interested consider buying the package from Tampa Bay Saltwater , The variety of life contained will keep then busy for hours.
They are a sponsor here on RC just take a few minutes or a few hours =-) to read up on it at the Tampa Bay Saltwater forum
lllosingit
New member
I was just looking in the TBS forum and ran across a member that is a Middle school teacher "who better to talk to LOL"
Here is a link to the user profileHere is a link to the user profifile
Here is a link to the user profileHere is a link to the user profifile
MyCatsDrool
Premium Member
I think that it is comparing apples and oranges. One isn't harder than the other, they are just different. Completely different environments with completely different needs.
If you are trying to accurately replicate an environment as well as mother nature, it is difficult either way. A correctly done SW tank can be as challenging as a correctly done FW tank.
It depends on your goal. If I really wanted to keep a FW betta in it's healthiest, most accurate environment, it would be difficult, as I would have to get the right plants (rice plants), the right soil, the right ph and lighting, the right mix of all of that, and make the rice grow, the seasons change, the right murkiness of the water.
Same goes for keeping a clownfish. I have to have the right balances for them too to keep them at thier best.
Some animals (unfortunately) are hardier than others, thus more easily kept in less than perfect, or correct, conditions. Just like any other animal.
The best thing to do is research, and do your best to make your animal as healthy as possible and comfortable as possible.
If you are trying to accurately replicate an environment as well as mother nature, it is difficult either way. A correctly done SW tank can be as challenging as a correctly done FW tank.
It depends on your goal. If I really wanted to keep a FW betta in it's healthiest, most accurate environment, it would be difficult, as I would have to get the right plants (rice plants), the right soil, the right ph and lighting, the right mix of all of that, and make the rice grow, the seasons change, the right murkiness of the water.
Same goes for keeping a clownfish. I have to have the right balances for them too to keep them at thier best.
Some animals (unfortunately) are hardier than others, thus more easily kept in less than perfect, or correct, conditions. Just like any other animal.
The best thing to do is research, and do your best to make your animal as healthy as possible and comfortable as possible.
The start up is harder, but not that much so... just a few more things to test for (Ca/alk) and determine how much to add.
Once the tank is established, I think it is pretty similar. It is definately more expensive!
I don't see why it couldn't be taught to middle school kids.
Once the tank is established, I think it is pretty similar. It is definately more expensive!
I don't see why it couldn't be taught to middle school kids.
cristhiam
New member
Not hard at all, if you master to keep Discus happy for years then you are ready for a salt water 
. It's funny to think back, I started with golfish like 20 years ago, then planted, then went to african cichlids and finally Discus for some years. IMO I keep it simple in my reef now the only addition is kalk and water changes every 2 weeks (I try) and Home Depot bulbs and of course more money but if you are into Discus they are not any cheaper
55G
125G
. It's funny to think back, I started with golfish like 20 years ago, then planted, then went to african cichlids and finally Discus for some years. IMO I keep it simple in my reef now the only addition is kalk and water changes every 2 weeks (I try) and Home Depot bulbs and of course more money but if you are into Discus they are not any cheaper 55G
125G
Salty Brother
New member
ive seen that tank before and all I have to say is HOLY XEINA!
Cellenzweig
New member
LMAO! That's exactly what went through my head right before I scrolled down and saw your post.
Your planted tank must have been either a jungle or sparsley planted. IMO, fw Amano or Dutch style planted tanks are very work intensive. Very rewarding, but a ton of work. Getting the chemistry right (photo periods and bulb types, ferts, bioload, allelopathy between plants, CO2 amounts) with a heavily planted, varied plant species tank is a chore. Did I mention the labor intensive pruning?
OTOH, non-pressurized CO2, low light, low ferts, planted tanks are easy to keep.
G
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