how long do clowns maintain sexual plasticity?

[Gyr]

Although I have had a percula hosting with a rose BTA in my tank for over 2.5 years, I really don't know that much about them. I have decided I would like to try to add another percula, hoping to get a mating pair.
My basic question is how can I be sure to get a male/female combo.

Here is what little I think I know (please correct any misconceptions):
--Since my percula has never had another clown in the tank, she should be a female.
--once a clown becomes a female, there is no going back to a male.
--If I introduce a male that is smaller into the tank, it should remain a male and there would be a chance they would breed.

Here is what I don't know:
--How do I know what I am bringing home from the LFS is a MALE percula?
--Assuming I get a new male, how long can I keep the new, smaller male in my QT tank by itself before it will change into a female.
--Will a juvenile percula maintain its sexual plasticity longer than an adult male? My LFS has both juvenile and adult-size perculas available from time to time.
--If getting a juvenile is the best way to assure introducing a male, how small can it be when it goes from QT to DT without risking my established single adult female harming it? (As I understand it, clowns can be quite territorial and I would keep the new addition in a brooder net enclosure in the DT for about a week)

Thanks for any advice,

Kurt

Here's a photo of my perc/BTA from last April:

 

[Exotic Reef.]

The male are aways the small ones the females are bigger then the males

 

[tvrsir]

if they have a few. I usually stand there and watching the interactions. if I see a twitching submissive fish. 99 percent of the time that will be the juvinile orbthe male.

good luck. nothing like a pair of clown in a nice tank.

 

[Tmoriarty]

Sexual maturity normally takes 9+ months. If you get a male from a pair (the smaller of the two) who is already mature he will change quickly after the female is removed from the mix. My sebae was a mature male when i bought him, it took what seemed about a month or two to mature into a female (grew more aggressive and grew in size quickly). Now this is not a proven method to determine it is now a female, but It is a decent indicator.

Your best bet would be to buy a young male from your LFS or a male from a pair at your LFS. If you buy an older male I would do a shorter quantine. When i lost my male a couple months ago I added a False perc in with my true perc female who is already mature. She picked on him pretty bad for about a week but has sense made peace and became paired. Just consider your self lucky you got a perc in a BTA, my female has been with BTA's for over a year now and wont touch them.

 

[Ron Reefman]

You could also offer your female to the LFS and get 2 juveniles. I did a juvenile cinnamon and tomato (they are in the same mating group) and they have done very well. They are a year old now and share a condy but I haven't seen any eggs yet. But they could be hiding them well as they are in a 75g tank full of LR and anemones.

 

[elegance coral]

Here is what I don't know:
--How do I know what I am bringing home from the LFS is a MALE percula?

Get a juvenile. It will either be unsexed, or male, but it will not be female.

--Assuming I get a new male, how long can I keep the new, smaller male in my QT tank by itself before it will change into a female.

This depends on the individual fish, and it's maturity level at the beginning of QT. If you start with a juvenile, you should have no worries of it turning female in the typical QT time.

--Will a juvenile percula maintain its sexual plasticity longer than an adult male? My LFS has both juvenile and adult-size perculas available from time to time.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking, but clowns change sex as they mature. They start out unsexed. When very young, their sexual organs simply aren't formed. From there they mature into functioning males. If there is a mature female, or more dominant fish in the immediate environment, they will remain male for a long time. In the absence of a female, or more dominant fish, the male will continue to mature into a female. So, generally speaking, the younger the fish is, the longer it will take to turn female.

--If getting a juvenile is the best way to assure introducing a male, how small can it be when it goes from QT to DT without risking my established single adult female harming it? (As I understand it, clowns can be quite territorial and I would keep the new addition in a brooder net enclosure in the DT for about a week)

There is always a risk, but IMHO, that risk is reduced the smaller the new fish is. I've introduced fish that were so small I feared they may be eaten, but bonding went well. The larger the new fish is, the more of a threat it becomes to the dominant fishes status, and they don't like others threatening their status as the big fish on the block.

 

[Gyr]

Just consider your self lucky you got a perc in a BTA, my female has been with BTA's for over a year now and wont touch them.

I didn't realize how lucky I was until I did some research. My perc took right to the BTA. She was a small juvenile, captive bred fish, maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[Gyr]

Get a juvenile. It will either be unsexed, or male, but it will not be female.




This depends on the individual fish, and it's maturity level at the beginning of QT. If you start with a juvenile, you should have no worries of it turning female in the typical QT time.

My LFS has some ocellaris clowns that are about an inch long. As I understand it, ocellaris can pair with perculas, so I am thinking about getting one. They are wild caught, so the LFS doesn't know how old they are, exactly. Would I be correct in thinking that at that size they are still juvenile/sexually immature, and would remain so for the month I want to keep the new fish in QT?

 

[Tmoriarty]

My LFS has some ocellaris clowns that are about an inch long. As I understand it, ocellaris can pair with perculas, so I am thinking about getting one. They are wild caught, so the LFS doesn't know how old they are, exactly. Would I be correct in thinking that at that size they are still juvenile/sexually immature, and would remain so for the month I want to keep the new fish in QT?

Yes they can pair, they can breed together as well. My clowns are one true perc and one false perc who have paired but not breeded yet. As far as the fish remaining a juve... if it is only an inch long than yes you should be fine. It may get picked on some by your female, just let it play its course, unless it becomes to bad and the smaller fish may die, at which point either allow it to play out or try another juve clown.

 

[Gyr]

Yes they can pair, they can breed together as well. My clowns are one true perc and one false perc who have paired but not breeded yet. As far as the fish remaining a juve... if it is only an inch long than yes you should be fine. It may get picked on some by your female, just let it play its course, unless it becomes to bad and the smaller fish may die, at which point either allow it to play out or try another juve clown.

Thanks, I think I'll go pick up one of the occelaris.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Excellent post by Elegance. Get the smallest fish you can find. Luckily, percula and ocellaris are usually pretty easy to pair. I've paired a few of them and never had a problem. The larger, more aggressive fish are a pain though. I had a huge GSM female (~5 inches) kill a very small juvenile GSM. The juvenile barely had any gold on his stripes at all. The next one I tried pairing was the exact same size, and she took to him instantly.

So... It all depends on the individual fish too.

 

[Gyr]

I got a small Occelaris yesterday morning, doing well in the QT. Thanks for all the info and great advice, everyone. I really appreciate it,
Kurt

 

[phender]

If you can catch your female, you might want to introduce the two in the QT tank. If you don't want to do that, you might want to rearrange your main tank a little before putting in the new clown. Sometimes the desire for a female perc to protect her territory is stronger than the urge to find a mate. I you make her a little uncomfortable, she will be more willing to look for companionship.

 

[Gyr]

If you can catch your female, you might want to introduce the two in the QT tank. If you don't want to do that, you might want to rearrange your main tank a little before putting in the new clown. Sometimes the desire for a female perc to protect her territory is stronger than the urge to find a mate. I you make her a little uncomfortable, she will be more willing to look for companionship.

Those are great suggestions, but my tank is a fairly mature SPS system and I have never been very good at netting fish, even in a relatively barren tank. I have no hope with all the rock work/corals for the fish to hide in. Any major re-arranging would be tough, too, as the rockwork has been epoxied together and is pretty crowded with coral. Here are a few recent photos to show you what I mean:

The above photo was taken before the BTA the clown hangs out in expanded in the morning, but they are in the area behind where the fire fish is. Here is an end shot that shows where the nem is:

Those photos were taken in early March, before I started a frag sale to debulk my tank (It was getting too crowded for my taste). I'd say I've removed about 1/3 of the coral, but major rearranging would still be tough. I think I'll keep the new clown in a brooder cage in the tank when its done with QT and see how the resident female acts. If she stays really aggressive toward the newbie, I'll probably just bag the idea and bring the new clown back to the LFS. As I was writing this I realized I really didn't want to risk making the BTA move by doing a major rockwork rearrangement. The BTA has been happy in its spot for about 2 years and I don't want to rock the boat...

 

[phender]

That is some tank! Congratulations.
Sometimes, if your clown is very attached to its anemone, you can go in at night and actually push the clown with your hand into a clear box or cup.

The good news is, if the female doesn't like the new one, he will have plenty of places to hide. Bad new is, if your female is relentless, you will have no way to save him.

 

[Gyr]

That is some tank! Congratulations.
Sometimes, if your clown is very attached to its anemone, you can go in at night and actually push the clown with your hand into a clear box or cup.

The good news is, if the female doesn't like the new one, he will have plenty of places to hide. Bad new is, if your female is relentless, you will have no way to save him.

Yeah, he'd be at her mercy, so I think I'll stick with my plan for observing how she acts toward him when in the brooder cage in the DT. (The clown is vry attached to the nem, but the nem retracts down and back behind the rock work and I can't even see it or the clown at night.) Thanks for the kind complement, by the way.
Kurt.