I've been living w/ ick for the past 3 years...no problem. However it is pervasive and comes and goes according to like some of the hobbist here said...if no feeding for a day or two or goes long w/ out water changes or if I add a fish or move rock work around but it usually goes away . All this = stress. Decrease any type of stress and it is usually manageable. I personaly thing that many fish are completed erraticated by other lethal parasites such as fluke, velvet, brook and the ick also attach because of weakness and deteriorated immune system so people probably feel that it was ick that killed it...but I'm def no expert and this is just my expereince/observation...the world goes round and round and round...lol...
How many people live with ich, how many eradicate ich?
- Thread starter Reefnation.Jon
- Start date
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I guess I jumped to conclusions when I first read the thread. The disease forum has a steady stream of folks who have just encountered ich and are doing everything possible to justify eradication. I know I can be a bit snarky on this subject; but giving that little bit of hope (especially beginners) just isn't a good idea, IMO & IME.
A side note: I am just amazed at the number of hobbyists who cannot identify ich. There are many threads on this forum section from folks who think they have ich, then post pics of a fish with quarter size blotches of nothing more than a little discoloration. These are not all newcomers. As I mentioned above, I agree many ich encounters are actually velvet; I also think tanks where ich pops up at the slightest little stressor are misdiagnosing as well. If ich has penetrated the defenses of a fish with possible temporary (its always temporary) immunity to ich, it is not going to disappear just because the stressor has. ()IMO & IME). There are also many people who think they have/manage ich because a fish has ich when the lights come on and its magical gone in minutes.
IMO, RC is an extremely valuable resource; but I think beginners should still read a few books before jumping into the hobby. Something I've said often: you can't learn this hobby one question at a time.
this article helps me out when i got ich. it says to use just the normal ich treatment when its not too bad. and copper in extreme conditions.
http://reefadvise.hubpages.com/hub/diagnosing-and-treading-marine-fish-diseases
http://reefadvise.hubpages.com/hub/diagnosing-and-treading-marine-fish-diseases
gone fishin
New member
IMO there is no such thing as a reef safe treatment. The only 3 treatments proven to kill ich is Tank transfer method, copper and hyposalinity(hard to pull off IMO) and leaving the tank fallow in conjuntion with one of the above treatments.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
The "normal treatment" seems to be some type of reef-safe ich cure, there isn't such a thing. The article's author seems to think that 30 days treatment or 30 days is adequate because the ich life cycle is 28 days. This sticky, by Snorvich, explains why 30 days is nowhere enough treatment time. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951)
I hate to be so negative; but this article has nowhere the content that any hobbyist must have to defeat ich. When I scrolled down a bit, the same author suggests Paraguard for brooklynella. By the time anyone realizes that the treatment isn't working, the brook infected fish will be dead. It looks like the work of a 6th grade Science Fair project.
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Paul B
Premium Member
You will get so many different opinions on ich that it is useless to even start a new thread about it. I have been in the hobby for over fifty years and I have seen plenty of ich. I don't have a problem with it. Everyone has different ideas and these threads usually end up in an argument. For that reason, I won't comment, But have a nice day. :dance:
snake42490
New member
I went through that stage and tried to live with it. IT didn't work. I bought an achilles tang and was told the people already qt it. Well I introduced it and got ich . I fed multi vitamins, healhty foods etc etc. I battled it for 5 months then finally it caught up to all the fish and most of them died because of how long I was fighting it. I can tell you right now if I would have just taken them out day 1 of seeing it those fish would still be alive.
From now on everything in my house goes through weeks of QT before it touches my tank..
***I have a friend that has a 180 gallon beautiful tank. The tank is going on 8 years old now. For whatever reason his tank is infested with ich, but none of the fish display issues. Whenever he tried to add a new fish though, it breaks out terribly within a week and then dies. My guess is his fish have a heck of an immunity built up, along with healthy feedings. But I can tell you right now, if he has a heater go out or forgets to feed or do a water change, his tank will be crashing.
I promise you if you choose to battle ich, ich will eventually win. It's just creeping around waiting for a mistake on your end to take over the fish! That's why I QT
From now on everything in my house goes through weeks of QT before it touches my tank..
***I have a friend that has a 180 gallon beautiful tank. The tank is going on 8 years old now. For whatever reason his tank is infested with ich, but none of the fish display issues. Whenever he tried to add a new fish though, it breaks out terribly within a week and then dies. My guess is his fish have a heck of an immunity built up, along with healthy feedings. But I can tell you right now, if he has a heater go out or forgets to feed or do a water change, his tank will be crashing.
I promise you if you choose to battle ich, ich will eventually win. It's just creeping around waiting for a mistake on your end to take over the fish! That's why I QT
Paul, first off, I'm a big fan. :thumbsup: But there's a big difference between a noob trying to manage Ich and someone with your expertise. You know every trick in the book to boost a fish's immune system and put them in breeding condition. Hell, you probably invented half of the methods. :beer: And that kind of knowledge can't simply be transferred by :reading: or by word of mouth. It takes years of trial & error to work out all the kinks.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Exactly. 90% (my guess) of the time; a beginner will take the easiest way with ich; and they're the ones least likely to succeed with any course than total eradication.
Paul B
Premium Member
Yes a big difference. I get PMs every day asking for advice and if I can, I give my answer. But to put that in a post would be hard because as you know out of the thousands of hobbiests here, we all think our method is the best and only way to go.
I have posted many times on my theories and I get a lot of hate mail telling me I can't tell people that because it is wrong. I am aware a noob will have problems with ich, I was the ich King and probably lost half the fish in the sea due to it. Now it is simple but remember there was no copper, no hypo, no books, no internet, no experts, just ich.
I learned how to cure it and prevent it through trial and mostly error. But now many people want a simple pill to cure everything. It doesn't happen like that.
I get it that my methods are old school, the oldest school as a matter of fact, but it works for me. Read some of my ich posts and see all the arguments. I guess I am just tired of posting the same advice all the time and then someone will say something like "Well then is it OK if I just feed flakes and change the water more often because getting the fish in great shape is to much work" :spin2:
So I would rather stay out of this, at least for a while. :smokin:
See a statement like this? I could jump all over this and a couple of years ago, I would have. Now I will just say something like Have a nice day. :beer:
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Reefnation.Jon
In Memoriam
The reason for discarding the sand is to make sure there is no ich in it. I would assume you would be able to microwave the sand as well or any other non-metal device to sterilize it. As tough as it is to kill ich in the cyst there is no way they can survive a microwave.
I do this will all my tubing and airstones. if I happen to not have any dry ones at the time of transfer.
Did anyone read that theory that it self eradicates after a certain time? Eleven months was the time I read where the lack of sexual reproduction/inbreeding had somehow made the parasite unable to function properly. I found the mention of an exact time and the fact that I never heard of this before a little odd but who knows....
Any hobby marine biologists out there that have any idea if there is atleast a grain of truth in this?
Any hobby marine biologists out there that have any idea if there is atleast a grain of truth in this?
WoW There is a lot of contrasting views here .I can tell you that I have been keeping marine fish since 1969 and literally spent my entire salary on inverts and fish back then. Ick WILL OUT LIVE US ALL.QT is definitely the way to lower the incidence of parasitic disease. BUT and this a BIG BUT! IT WILL NOT KILL EVERY PARASITE ON A FISH.I have had fish which would get ick on their body for a week and then not see it for months. The other fish would never show parasites.
It boils down to applying a proven procedure of qt for new fish [and 90 days is the suggested qt period.] THE DT NEEDS GOOD HUSBANDRY AND THE FISH NEED PROPER NUTRITION.EVERYTHING LIVING WILL EVENTUALLY DIE and get disease. The life span depends upon the state of health Which is influenced by the stress. In the life of a coral reef fish water quality is important. You will read that fish can tolerate high nitrates which someone concluded they can tolerate it since they can withstand pollution and not die. However high nitrates does cause organ disease and STRESS THE FISH . As does confinement,aggression,improper diet, water temps, co2 content ,ph,lack of trace elements and other toxins and compounds which develop in aquaria and are not found on the reef. Each tank is dynamic.Those of you who do regular maintenance, water changes ,filter medium recharging etc ,will most likely suffer less disease and losses. Ick is most likely in our tanks .
It boils down to applying a proven procedure of qt for new fish [and 90 days is the suggested qt period.] THE DT NEEDS GOOD HUSBANDRY AND THE FISH NEED PROPER NUTRITION.EVERYTHING LIVING WILL EVENTUALLY DIE and get disease. The life span depends upon the state of health Which is influenced by the stress. In the life of a coral reef fish water quality is important. You will read that fish can tolerate high nitrates which someone concluded they can tolerate it since they can withstand pollution and not die. However high nitrates does cause organ disease and STRESS THE FISH . As does confinement,aggression,improper diet, water temps, co2 content ,ph,lack of trace elements and other toxins and compounds which develop in aquaria and are not found on the reef. Each tank is dynamic.Those of you who do regular maintenance, water changes ,filter medium recharging etc ,will most likely suffer less disease and losses. Ick is most likely in our tanks .
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There are many strains of ick and parasites can exist for great periods of time. It is impossible to say what a fallow period should be beyond a general statement.WATER CHEMISTRY , TEMPERATURE,LIGHT, SUBSTRATE all effect the time period.
I didn't mean a fallow period but rather that according to some people the Ich just dies out on it's own accord even with fish in the tank.
I AM NOT SAYING IT DOES!!!
Just curious if there is any truth at all in this idea.
Reefnation.Jon
In Memoriam
I have also read a few tutorials stating a life span of around 11 months if no other fish or ich are introduced to the system. But as Dr Pat mentioned there are numerous strains and I would not assume this for all cases.
Reefnation.Jon
In Memoriam
Sorry, by life span I was also referring to a single genetic line in a closed system.
Hi PAUL West bab I see your an old salt too.
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