how much phosban?
- Thread starter wnutz
- Start date
jdieck
New member
I want to clarify that in my opinion it is not the amount of media used what causes the problems but how fast you remove the phosphate from the total tank water volume, this is why it is important to use a reactor were the effluent amount of phosphate free treated water can be limited and controlled.
The natural assumption is that the more media used the faster the phosphate is removed but in a reactor it does not work that way. If you fill up the reactor with media and water but then you close the valve are we removing phosphate from the tank? Only from the water inside the reactor. Once all the phosphate in that water is removed the media just holds removal until more phosphate laden water is added. Assuming full phosphate removal from the water pasing through the reactor, an effluent flow of 10 ml per minute will take twice as long (or two times slower) to remove a given amount of phosphate in the aquarium than a flow of 20 ml/min.
Also besides the speed of removal IMO there seems to have been another contributing factor to the coral problems. Initially there were issues in the way the media was first recommended to be applied. If you remember when the media first hit the market the manufacturers recommended not to rinse the media, this resulted in media fines deposited all over the corals, now the recommendation is to discard the initial water passed trough the reactor at start up until the water starts to clear to prevent the media dust to be carried into the water column. Similarly when using a bag, the recommendation was to have the media loose inside the bag (similar to today's recommendation of fluidized in the reactor), now the recommendation is to hold the media tight inside the bag to prevent erosion by the constant agitation that could create small particles that pass trough the bag.
In addition there seem to have been more problems reported with the use of Rowaphos than the use of Phosban. If you take a look at the charts shown in the document I attached above, Rowa is really very fast acting and can adsorb twice the phosphate for the same water retention time than Phosban at similar phosphate concentrations. By the way it adsorbs twice but also costs twice as much on a dry mass to mass comparison.
By the way I use a large 6" dia reactor in my 330 gal water system volume which I load with a full bucket (1200 gr) of Phosban replaced every six months. Enough to remove about 400 mg of Phosphate at concentrations of around 0.01 ppm.
I estimated that if I do not use the media the phosphate level would reach about 0.3 ppm in that time with my normal feeding and water change schedule. That happens to be about 375 milligrams (0.3 mg/lt x 330 gal x 3.7854 lts/gal).
Last but not least, when using less volume than that required to fully fluidize the media I would recommend shaking the reactor once in a while to prevent compaction and solidification of the media by the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
Hope this info helps to clarify the point I am trying to make.
At the end, both methods work, it is just that one seems more practical to me than the other.
Last edited:
DitchPlains2
In Memoriam
PHOSGUARD
PHOSGUARD
I find SeaChem's PHOSGUARD to be a much better media for A. Not accidentally releasing pellets into aquarium (did this by accient, too much phosban media) and B. not causing and coral problems.
imho
David
PHOSGUARD
I find SeaChem's PHOSGUARD to be a much better media for A. Not accidentally releasing pellets into aquarium (did this by accient, too much phosban media) and B. not causing and coral problems.
imho
David
jdieck
New member
Ditch:
The issue with activated alumina based media is that even after rinsing it, it releases certain amount of Aluminum that had shown negative effects at least for some softies like Yellow Sarcopython.
Because during the tests after the media was removed the coral showed no signs of permanent damage IMO Alumina based media which is a lot cheaper can be used for the initial start up drop of phosphate (Say a couple of batches over a couple of weeks). This will remove a lot of the initial Phosphate at a lower initial cost before switching to a more expensive Iron based media like Phosban or Rowaphos for long term use.
The issue with activated alumina based media is that even after rinsing it, it releases certain amount of Aluminum that had shown negative effects at least for some softies like Yellow Sarcopython.
Because during the tests after the media was removed the coral showed no signs of permanent damage IMO Alumina based media which is a lot cheaper can be used for the initial start up drop of phosphate (Say a couple of batches over a couple of weeks). This will remove a lot of the initial Phosphate at a lower initial cost before switching to a more expensive Iron based media like Phosban or Rowaphos for long term use.
jdieck
New member
For a 90 try 15 ml per minute and add about 10 ml per week until you reach the fluidization level. That will remove the Phosphate in the tank in about one month.
Because the rate of drop will depend much on how much and how fast phosphate in rock and sand starts to be relased and how much you are adding with your food, if you have detectable levels test the water after 48 to 72 hours of the start to see how fast is dropping and adjust accordingly. Also observe your corals, if you notice some reaction reduce the flow.
For a 180 gal tank try twice as much.
15ml per minute is real precise i have no way in measuring that i have a pump rated at 100 gph so its prbably pushig 85 to 90 gph should i have the little valve just barely open and since i hear people talkin about the phosban getting back in the tank would it be ok to put a little sponge filter at the end of the output hose?
saltman1
New member
I just set my TLF Phosban 150 up. I filled the chamber 1/4 up with phosban, about 1/2 the 150 G container. I run the maxi jet 404 turned down and the flow valve is still shut 85% to get the top of the phosban tumbling. All looks good, from those who run this unit does this sound good?
jdieck
New member
Here is what Julian Sprung the owner of the Phosban brand and Two Little Fishies say about that....
"... so the tumbling of such media in a typical fluidized sand filter would produce fines in the water. This does not prevent the use of such media in an upflow filter. If the base of the upflow filter has a perforated plate that disperses the flow and the flow rate is adjusted to lift the media without causing tumbling, the desired effect can be achieved...."
So, surprize!.... no tumbling. Adjust the flow until the surface grains of the media start to slightly move then back up just a little bit but without allowing the media colum to drop.
jdieck
New member
Here is the sequence:
Insert the inner pipe with the lower perforated plate attached to it and center it in the reactor. Add a foam filter pad (With a hole in the center to pass the inner pipe) and push it down until it sits on top of the lower plate.
Add the dry media. To prevent media going inside the center pipe use a plastic cap to cover the top of the pipe while you add the media.
Remove the cap and insert the top plate attached to the short inner pipe extension. Insert a foam pad and push it down against the top of the higher plate. If you have a thicker foam media that the one that comes with the reactor, cut it for a tight fit and use it.
Place the cover in the reactor. get a bucket and place the output hose into the bucket. Turn on the powerhead and slowly open the valve. the reactor starts to fill and the media to rise. open the flow and let the "dirty" water into the bucket. Shut off the valve when you think the water has cleared enough and most of the dust fines have been rinsed off. Open the reactor and remove the top foam. Wash it to remove any trapped fines and replace it back on top of the higher plate. Fill all the space above the top foam filter and up to the reactor cover with fine fiber filter and close the reactor.
Put your outlet hose back to the sump or whatever your return will be. Turn on the powerhead and start opening the inlet valve. The media starts to rise. If you are using the full dose of media limit the flow to a small amount as mentioned in the post above.
To measure the amount of flow get a watch with seconds needle or a stop watch and a measuring cup. Measure how much water is being passed in certain amount of time, adjust the flow and you are there.
For the ones using full flow you do not need to measure just adjust the flow as mentioned above to the point were the top lighter grains at the surface of the media start slightly tumbling and then back up a little bit.
Enjoy watching your phosphate going down...
Neptune777
Premium Member
I used the full container (phosban) in the reactor right from the start...no ill effects at all. I have lots of sps and none showed issues. Not sure what all the fuss is about.....
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