How smart are Fish

[travis32]

I know the title sounds silly, after all fish is a fish is a fish. We eat them, feed them to other fish, watch them grow, and die, and their treated more or less sometimes like insects or ants. We like them at the same time, they're slimy, floppy, and really dumb because after all they're fairly low on the food chain and of course all that matters is how many other things can catch and eat the animal in question.

So, with that said, my mini Schnauzer knows her name, we've taught her close to 20 verbal commands plus, she responds quite well to many hand signals and behavioral signals from us 2 legged oafs of humans.

The reason I'm subject to give pause to fish intelligence is a couple reasons. A few weeks ago I had a major lime overdose that caused a tank crash. Ammonia hit 8.0ppm within 36 to 48 hours of the crash.

I had a marine betta in the tank at the time of the crash (thankfully the only fish in the tank..) He knew that if he didn't get out he would die... HOw did I know this, well, the water was so cloudy that I couldn't see more than half inch in it.. Guess what. The marine betta came to the side of the tank and almost pressed his face up to the glass when I'd look at him and he was more or less screaming get me out... I tried once and he swam into the cloud, then 1 min later breathing even harder he swam towards me again and he let me catch him this time.

He could have gone and hid in the rock work and I would never have caught him. Not in a million years. I would have had to take all the rock out, then navigate the tank in a cloud of white percipitate. No, He sat there as I pulled him out with the net. He was most alive, because once out of the water he flopped a lot... I put in him in the clean QT and within 24 hours he was normal and feeding and lives to this day 2 or 3 weeks after the life threatening ordeal.

He was smart enough to know I was his one chance at rescue, if he hadn't allowed me to catch him he would have died over 2 weeks ago.

Fast forward to today. When one of the clown pair died. It's mate would swim back and forth in and out of the PVC pipe that the mate was dieing in (got stuck to a powerhead intake while sleeping.. Again my fault for not blocking the intake...) Now that the mate died and I removed the body, the clown left behind keeps swimming into the pvc pipe that it's mate had claimed. It swims through to the other side and out, and wonders where it's mate went.

Although, I don't know how much actual emotional awareness a fish may have. I'm led to believe that althouhg their brains are tiny, and sometimes they do really dumb things (carpet surfing comes to mind), they at the same time, have way more intellect than we realize.

With all that said, these are just a couple experiences. Anyone else out there have their fish try to communicate with their caretakers about something behing wrong? Whether it's another sick fish, or some type of communication that obviously is trying to signal someone external to themselves that something is wrong with their situation? I find it pretty neat that something so small and well not very high up on the intellectual scales of ecology, that they have the wits to signal for help.

 

[tkeracer619]

They seem smarter then some people I know...

At my last job (aquarium maintenance) we had a batfish. It was rescued from a lfs that got it in trade. It had ich and was slow to engage food. After a while it was ready to go into a 900g tank. A wrasse ended up trying to eat it about a year later. We dropped it off at the public aquarium once it was healed back up to get the tank it deserved. A few days later I was there for a reef show and sat at the big tank hoping to see the fish. We didn't know if the barracuda had eaten it upon release...

Well after 5 minutes he came to the glass and then stayed there until I left at least 15 minutes later.

I find it hard to believe that this fish didn't know who I was. It saw me and swam right up showing wonderful colors it never had before.


First sight

Next 15 minutes. I'd bet he was thinking "Can I has krill?"

 

[travis32]

Wow, that's awesome!! I hate seeing batfish at Petco. GRR.. your experience is awesome. And I agree, I think my dog and my betta are smarter than some people I know.

 

[mrstihl]

My yellow tang attacks the glass every time it sees its reflection...

Been doing it a long time and I don't see an end in sight.

 

[clownfreak]

I think fish are much smarter than people think. One person had posted on how their fish learned to squirt water at them to get food. Carpet surfing is instinctual in most fish that do it, they find they are in poor conditions and try to jump to the next "tidepool" which sadly is the floor. As for your clown, it may be suffering an emotional breakdown so to speak. Much as how people can miss each other it misses it's mate.

 

[RVANANO]

That's awesome!!!!! I bet it put a huge smile on your face.

Many people don't believe me when I tell them about my pink tailed trigger I had about 15 years ago. My dad tells the story too as I as 16 and lived at home. I had a 90 gallon with a glass top where the front half was missing. The trigger would jump out of the tank and land on the top and just sit there for a while. When it wanted to go back in the tank, it would flop back in the water. It never over shot the top. Amazing.

Triggers seem to recognize the person that takes care of them as well. I have read many stories and feel like my blue throat recognizes me over my wife and stepdaughter.

 

[cm11599ps]

Before converting my 55 to a reef I had a freshwater setup with an Oscar & a Parrotfish. I also had an automatic feeder that dropped small pellets at 7pm every night.

During the day my fish would swim all over the tank. At about 6:45pm every night the 2 fish would go to the back of the tank where the feeder dropped the food. They wouldn't swim, they would simply hover in that area until the food dropped.

It's not like there was a noise or anything beforehand that they could associate feeding time with since it was a digital time. Once 7pm hit the unit would dispense and that's the only time the unit made any noise or movement.

 

[cody6766]

I don't think it's intellect and intelligence (reasoning) as it is associating a certain stimulus (your presence) with food or other positive reinforcements. I wouldn't say they're completely unable to reason and act completely on instinct, but they lack a lot of the higher brain structures most commonly associated with higher thought.

I would argue that my birds, and even my fish, have more of this higher brain development than a lot of the people I encounter on a daily basis

 

[Bayliner]

Interesting comment about your marine beta, I have one as well and although it is a shy fish, As soon as I stand in front of the tank he comes out. Every time. He will come out into the open and wait for me to feed him.... So that tells me he has a memory that the last time I was in front of the tank he got some food... If I walk to the other side of the tank he will follow....that to me is intelligent.

I also notice this even more with my Koi in my backyard pond... I can't even cut the grass without then watching me... They know who feeds them...

 

[89Foxbody]

My freshies and especially my Cichlids always know when I am going to be feeding them, and they go nuts as a result. My reef tank has a small gap in the glass top about 1/2" wide through which I drop food, and as soon as the fish see my hand hovering over the tank they all come up to the surface. They certainly are more intelligent than most of the people I deal with on a daily basis.

 

[mdhnatow]

My fish once duplicated the Mona Lisa... with algae...

I'd say they're pretty smart!

:beer:

 

[travis32]

Mdhnatow, somehow if that were true, I think either the algae mona lisa, or the fish that did it would be more valuable than the true mona lisa.

 

[tmgrash]

They are smart enough to know who feeds them thats for sure. My fish definately know the difference between me and the rest of my household, when I come up to the tank they go nuts. Even similar looking people they can distiguish. My dad looks a lot like me (or is that the other way around), but when he comes over to visit the fish do not respond to him like they do me. And when friends come over a lot of times they will hide.

 

[NewJerseyreef]

as for the feeding its a normal habit that any animal can experience. its like a biological clock that they know when they are going to be fed. its just like when i go to the tank the fish kind of look at me and go about their buisness but once i dip a clear cup into the tank they know food is on the way. its the same with lizards i had kept for awhile. they may not be able to speak to us but they are able to distinguish between people and objects and for me thats pretty smart since alot of people cant always do it

 

[allactiondan]

I had a cleaner shrimp that would swim to the overflow as soon as I put food in the tank. Some food would always find its way to the overflow, and there he was, just sitting their waiting. He was smart shrimp. -I still miss him.

 

[Alunai]

I agree. I think fish are actually quite intelligent, possess individual personalities and have the ability to express emotions. Perhaps not on a human level, but I believe it is not uncommon for clowns to mourn over the loss of a mate and have reasoning capabilities.

 

[djkms]

My fish know when it's feeding time by the change in the current. As soon as I hit feed mode on my Neptune they go nuts.

Sent from my drooooooid.

 

[Everyones Hero]

There are a few yellow tangs that have been at my work for a while now. When they don't have food & I walk up to the tank they all go to the left hand side of the tank, which is where I hang the algae clip. I'll have to see if they respond to any of my co-workers instead of me (since 90% of the time everyone else neglects to feed any of the grazers. :hammer

Same deal with a foxface & trigger. If they haven't been fed & I come up to the tank they immediately go to the top for their pellets & then the fox waits for his algae. If they've been fed & I walk up they don't respond.

 

[bubbly]

If you think about the constant state of warfare in the ocean (where pretty much everything is a predator and any piece of rock or vegetation is liable to hide a predator or even be a predator in disguise), a fish has to be smart to survive for long.

Even though goldfish don't live in the ocean, there are videos on youtube of goldfish being trained to do incredible "synchronized swimming" feats on command.

The "research" that said that fish are dumb consisted of putting goldfish in a tank with a glass divider. When the divider was taken out, the fish started swimming the whole length of the tank 5 minutes later. This was taken as "proof" that the fish only had a 5 minute memory span, since the researchers thought that they forgot about the divider being there 5 minutes after it was removed. The truth was that they were smart enough to realize that it was being removed as soon as they saw it happening.

 

[travis32]

awesome. I love my betta, although I wish I could have a shrimp or two, if nothing to clean up the food that my betta makes a mess of, but, as one mentioned. something is always food for another, and a shrimp is living food for a betta.

I know that feeding is the big, and even people have a conditioned response to food. Ever feel fine then suddenly smell something that smelled delicious, like a delicious savory steak... Hmm. who's not feeling hungry now ??? (unless of course your vegetarian and hate steak. )

I was trying to think outside of food do fish do cries for help, or show signs they want us to play with them, etc... One example is when both clowns were alive. I put my finger on the glas while they were looking at me, and they would both immediately start synchronized bobbing up and down while staring at my finger... I saw it as a sign, cool something on the glas wants to play with us.... lol. Who knows, it could have been their warning dance.

If the betta isn't hungry and I walk by, he'll come out of whereever he is and swim out, and flash his fins at me, sometimes for a few minutes, then he'll swim about and go on his business. Like he's saying hi or "how was your day" or osmething like that.

Obviously assigning human interpretation to animal behavior is probably psychologically impossible, at the same time, the behaviors would have to indicate that there's more going on than "I felt like flashing my fins at you. I don't know why though."