How this Geezer did it in the beginning

[Paul B]

Paul, can you detail the windmill driven pump system you used to aerate your tank in the period before electricity

Actually that is not too far fetched, although way before my time. My family came here from Sicily in 1898 or so and they settled in lower Manhattan near the Bowery.
My Mother used to tell me that when she was about 8 years old they installed electric lights in the street lights and at 7:00PM every night all the neighbors used to gather on their porches to see the lights come on. Then they would all jump up and cheer. Times have changed a little.
Of course they all had cell phones but the service was horrible,
Then some enterprising people would climb the poles and attach wires and run them through the windows into their house and eventually they had one light bulb in their living room and everyone hung out there. For the rest of the rooms, they still had to go to the basement to put a nickel in the gas meter to keep the gas lights on.:eek1:
Another interesting fact, if you are interested, is that when someone got sick, they would make you sleep in the horse stable because they thought the smell of horse poop would make you better. :hmm6: It must have worked because my Mom lived almost to 100 and her brother never saw a doctor or dentist in his almost 90 years. (he also never paid taxes but that is another story)

and wanted to be a Marine biologist...yep ...that was gonna happen.

Mark, I also wanted to be a marine biologist but I liked building things too much and I also liked to eat.

 

[skidoctor]

My great grandparents escaped religous persuction in Europe in the early 1900's. My grandfather served in WWII, father in Korea, stepfather in Vietnam. True, they and all who serve are the the true heros. I often regret that upon graduating high school I passed up the opportunity to enlist- dumb selfish kid.
It was my grandfathers death in 1982 that brought me into this hobby- he left me a 55g hex saltwater tank (and we had not the faintess clue as to what needed to be done and how much work it actually was.) We'd go to Selmers in Huntington every week or two to replace the livestock we killed due to inexperience and naivete. Finally we called it quits.
Fast forward 25+ years and I'm back in it, not only for the beauty, the creativity, the learning, but also because there is a sentiment attached to keeping a sw tank- I know my grandfather would be proud.
Your stories bring back memories I haven't thought of in years, and I appreciate that. As for your methods- I can honestly say I won't try the majority of them, but I'm glad that someone smarter than me is- and passing on the information. For those that do follow your methods- you are creating memories and sentiments that will last lifetimes for other families. And for that I thank you.

 

[Paul B]

I often regret that upon graduating high school I passed up the opportunity to enlist-

Skidoctor, don't feel too bad, I didn't join either, I was drafted. Just about everyone was in the 60s and I had no doubt I would. Of course some people went to Canada which is fine, I personally feel they should have had to stay there but that is just my opinion.

As for your methods- I can honestly say I won't try the majority of them,

LOL, that is a smart decision

but I'm glad that someone smarter than me is

I also doubt I am any smarter than you are.

It was my grandfathers death in 1982 that brought me into this hobby

My Dad died before my Grandfather but my Grand Parents never spoke a word of English and I could never speak Italian. The only word I know in Italian is Dean Martin. :lol2:
I also know a little Spanish, Ricardo Montalban. Thats about it. :lmao:

I wish I could have spoken to my Grand Parents. They were fisherman in Sicily going out in tiny boats. I could have learned a lot from them. But most of all I wish my Dad lived at least until I understood things better. He knew things I could only dream about and I missed out on all that wisdom. It is a great thing that you remember and honor your Grandparents

 

[Paul B]

I really should get back to fish tanks.
When I transfered everything from my 40 gallon tank to this 100 gallon I decided to do things a little differently. I don't use a sump as they were not invented then and my tank is totally tempered glass and not drillable. (I also don't like holes in things filled with water, it's just me)
I didn't want any pumps or heaters visable so I installed a black sheet of plexiglass about an inch from the back of the tank. All heaters and hoses were behind that and it had grills where the water could pass through.
One day I couldn't find my firefish and after a long search I found him behind the plexiglass. Firefish are not that easy to catch anyway but in a 6' long by one inch wide space filled with hoses, forget about it. So I had to remove the rocks and then take out the plexiglass to catch the fish. I have no idea how he got in there.
So I re installed everything and put back the plexiglass only to find the firefish back there again the next day.
Out came the plexiglass for good. It looked nice but wasn't very practical.

Here in New York we have local seahorses, I don't know how they survive the winter, but they do. About 20 years ago I collected a pair and had no place for them except in my reef. I knew they would starve there so I put in a partition about 10" from one side of the tank.
They spawned in there and I got a picture of them transfering the eggs from the female to the male.
I think it is a cool picture. I raised some of the babies and gave them away. The seahorses lived their normal lifespan of a couple of years and I removed the divider.
At that time I was feeding them adult brine shrimp that I would hatch and raise on yeast. To feed them I invented the "Seahorse and Reef Tank Feeder" which I patented and ended up selling 6,000 of.
I don't make them any more because brine shrimp are not the best food for seahorses but mine didn't know that and they lived and spawned fine.

http://breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm

 

[spieszak]

Did you still have the firefish, and did he visit the seahorses?

 

[markaren]

Thanks for the story Paul. Like Peter "An Awarded Hero" you are indeed a hero. Sit here and read this and please except it...you went to a place you knew you would probably die. A service, you could have ran from in selfishness. I registered as required...I was scared as a 13 and 14 year old knowing what was coming for me and my friends. For You however it did indeed come. Lower right and upper left of a picture in an honorable separation from heroism is somewhat like saying you were on the Titanic ....but no big deal..."I was on the starboard side"

You are not an awarded Hero , perhaps. But you are a hero. Different only by another story , you supported one another, you were there for us...Thank You. So many of you boys became men ( and so many died that finally sanity prevailed) so that a few years later others and I became a man so I could become a Boy...From now till Never Never Land.

Ok, so lets talk fish and life some more

 

[Paul B]

Thank you Mark, I don't know about the hero part though.

Ok, so lets talk fish and life some more

Did you still have the firefish, and did he visit the seahorses?

No, I don't have that firefish, that was in about 1979 or so. He would be an old firefish. I can't keep those dam things anyway, they always jump out as do long nose hawkfish and jawfish. Thats the only way I lost them, it's a shame too because I love purple firefish, really nice looking animal. Somewhat like Claudia Schiffer. :crazy1:

 

[markaren]

Ok...simple question from a naive Reefer wanna be. If you were to start like me with salt in a tank fresh start this next week. what would your general experience contribute in a few simple steps.

My thoughts: Water using RO/DI, salt mix of choice (have not decided), some live sand with other sand and a couple live rocks.

...and then sit on this for a couple moths and learn how to do water keeping, testing, automatic top off and so on BEFORE taking care of life.

please keep your life with fish story's going...my newest added daily check. I do not read news papers anymore and enjoy looking forward to your experiences of life as it was.

Did you paint those pics? My 4 and 6 year old would love them in their room! Those that should write books never do

 

[Paul B]

Mark if I was you in Florada, I would fill the tank with all NSW and I would also take some rocks from the sea (yes I know it's illegal, they will put you in jail for the rest of your life and just before you die, they will shoot you.) but forget that and take some rocks from the sea to seed the tank. Don't use rocks from someone elses tank or a LFS.
I would also use sand from the shallow water there but you don't have to actually add that, just put it in the water for a few days in a container. By doing all of that, you will by pass a process of getting the correct bacteria to start.
Then after a week or so, I would add some hardy fish like maybe a gobi and some crabs, that you should feed with pellets.
I would not use any ASW if you could help it at least at the start. ASW is sterile and will do nothing but give you problems, the bacteria don't like it and I don't like it.
You can use it later if you want.
That is exactly how I started my tank only I used New York water, Florada is much better.
Don't let it sit with no animals in it, you need animals to keep the bacteria growing.
You also won't need test kits for a few months.
Don't listen to people that tell you it has pollution and paracites. Just don't collect it in a lagoon. Strain out any manta rays and you will have no problems.
Good luck

Yes, I painted them. This is almost the same painting I did for my Daughter 33 years ago. There are real tree branches coming out of the walls and going into the ceiling. It came out better than I thought it would.:lol:

 

[spieszak]

See...this is where the difference of opinions come in, and what works for Paul may or may not work for you. Note previous in the thread that he noted that he looks at his tank as an experiment. So, you have to decide, do i want to live within the "conventional knowledge" or do i want an experiment. There is nothing wrong with either choise..(although i do take a bit of an issue with the idea of basically cycling with fish as noted above, because i wouldn't want to live in a vat of ammonia..and not ensuring a proper cycle puts those fish in that spot)... the "coventional widom" always needs to be challenged... but its up to you to decide if your a strong enough swimmer to rock the boat....

 

[spieszak]

And of course by difference of opinion, i mean i wouldn't strain out the manta rays.
Paul - whats the "worst" experiment you feel like you've done? Doesn't have to had resulted in a loss, but one of those "i'd never do that again, ever" moments?....if you have one that is...

 

[devildog999]

aint that the truth...well said my friend.

I always admire my good friend a neighbor "Bud". He is a former US marine (they don't like the word x marine so do not use it around them lol). His hobbies are fast cars and 4x4s. Hobbies that include a lot of work and a lot of money. He works hard, but plays harder. UPS/FedEx comes weekly bringing boxes for his toys, he works on them (which I help him with from time to time over a beer or 4 ), then breaks the hell out of them. He works all day on his jeep for example, then breaks it out in the woods, it does not bother him. He had fun. He does not take his hobbies personally. Nor should we with these fish tanks...

No such thing as a former Marine either We are just inactive

 

[Paul B]

Note previous in the thread that he noted that he looks at his tank as an experiment.

As I have said many times, you may not want to use my methods (I like having the oldest tank on here, LOL)

As for cycling with fish, weeeelll. In that method above there will not be much cycling going on because I suggested filling his tank with NSW "and" sand,"and" rocks from the sea. This would already be cycled and would not produce much if any ammonia.

Now getting back to that fish thing. I "think" I cycled my tank with damsels.
(but I could have used sardines for all I know) They lived forever (I think, maybe they are still in there) but besides that, many people don't want to "hurt" the fish (I had a codfish for dinner) but have no problem putting in a dead shrimp.
Does that fish have more civil rights that that shrimp who also died just to cycle a tank?
How about a clam, we could cycle with a clam but then we have to think about the clam's rights and if he can afford a lawyer.
I suggest we use criminals on death row. After all they really don't have rights any more, I don't think so anyway.
We feed mysis which are tiny shrimp like creatures. Do they have rights?
(I also had shrimp and clams with my dinner last night. My wife had calamari)
Calamari probably don't have rights, I don't know why, they just look like an animal that wouldn't care about rights, them and snails. But big snails like conches probably have rights so we don't want to use them to cycle a tank.
Now Manta Rays, I know they have rights, very cool animals and I know some personally but I did say to strain them out.
I feed live baby brine shrimp every day. I never look at their tiny faces because I will feel bad about the little babies. I think I will change my heathen ways and grow all of those brine shrimp, send them to school and watch them graduate, thats what I will do. :lol:
Anyway, can you see where I am going here? :dance:
I would never intentionally hurt a living animal but my shoes are leather and I occasionally eat a chicken (rarely red meat so cows like me)

This thread is about how this old Geezer started a tank and I really don't even remember but I did use seawater with real rocks and I didn't have test kits so who knows what the heck I did. It is lost in the wierd confines of my semi senile mind.:sad1:
Now don't send me hate mail because I eat fish (almost every day) along with shrimp, calamari, octopus, mussels, clams and everything else that swims. :lol2:

but its up to you to decide if your a strong enough swimmer to rock the boat....

He was Peter Pan and Prince Charming so I know he is strong enough to rock the boat. :wave:
Peter Pan was my Hero

whats the "worst" experiment you feel like you've done?

I am going to have to think about that one for a while

No such thing as a former Marine either We are just inactive

Yes you are, and I have great respect for Marines.

 

[devildog999]

Yes you are, and I have great respect for Marines.

Thank you, and thank you for your service! Loving the stories, please keep them going! Definitley sounds a lot more difficult back then, a lot less rescources to learn from like we have today. Highly enjoying this.

 

[markaren]

Ok...I'll bite. How do you grow tiny shrimp. Right now I am thinking...(enter the LFS) ..."hello...ummm...do you have tiny shrimp eggs and the tinier shrimp spe..(errr ummm) ..thing that makes them grow" Do I need the nursery too?? So many questions to hone from you, thanks for your time.

 

[johnike]

Paul thank you so much.
Your writings inspire me and lots of others.
I lost my father in 1971 when I was 11 and he was 47, dropped right in front of the whole family on vacation. He was a Korean war vet as well.
again, thank you for sparking memories.
Do you ever talk to that fella in Iowa any more?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Now Randy, lets not get crazy.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Nice thread.

 

[spieszak]

Ok...I'll bite. How do you grow tiny shrimp. Right now I am thinking...(enter the LFS) ..."hello...ummm...do you have tiny shrimp eggs and the tinier shrimp spe..(errr ummm) ..thing that makes them grow" Do I need the nursery too?? So many questions to hone from you, thanks for your time.

brine shrimp eggs have been around for ever and for those of us that remember, are also known as sea monkeys. Every LFS store I've been to have them available. You can hatch them in virtually anything with salt water.. aeration helps. If you cut the bottom off a soda bottle, about three quarters of the way down, you see that the top (with the spout) will sit rather nicely in the bottom, leaving you an upside down spouted bottle that will sit on your counter. drill a hole in the lid... push an airline through... set the bubbles so the water rolls but doesn't boil. add brine shrimp eggs and come back a day or two later.
The babies are very nutritious when first hatched. They lose nutrition as time goes because they eat their egg sac to survive, and that is where are the nutrition actually is. If you plan to have them around a while, you should enrich or "gut load" them.

Paul, I understand that I eat meat, and that the shrimp was harvested and died too. Its not the death I have issue with, its the manner of death. I also know that lots of the things I eat or have don't have particularly "nice" deaths, but If I want chicken (and choose to to buy free range), I'll accept other peoples practices. It becomes completely different to me when I become the abuser. in both cases the animal is "abused", in the latter, when I have the ability to prevent it, and I know of another way that works, that is the scenario I don't accept (for myself... Me, God and the mirror are the only ones that matter to the whole speal. )

While I agree the ammonia level is likely to be low, most of the bacteria live in the media, not the water. And a number of fish in a closed system can easily overwhelm the bacteria if it hasn't had time to really take hold. Even with all the stuff coming straight from the ocean, being tossed in a glass box, after traveling in a bucket, is a pretty drastic environment change, even or especially, which ever way you want to go with that, for something like bacteria. If you are going to cycle with fish, you in theory should work to prevent losses, and to ensure the fish isn't in excess pain (ammonia does that).... which most of the time includes lots of water changes (regardless of the water source)... I'm also much to lazy to do that, especially were I collecting water a couple miles from the house.

Again, as I stated, its a choice, I've made mine, and can only explain my choice to others such that they understand why. What they do with that information is between them, their god, and the mirror.

And as I've noted before, I don't disagree with your approach. There are somethings I wouldn't do. Although there are somethings I would definitely consider, and when(not if, its really never if with fish folks is it) I'm ready to set up another tank, think I'm going to try. My existing tanks are happy, breeding fish, and almost most of the time happy corals, so I'm not a strong enough swimmer to rock the boats with them.

 

[londonloco]

Decided to stop in on this thread before I started my Saturday, I have a few thoughts:

There are more Geezer-ettes on here than you realize, we just don't post a lot, prob cuz we know we're right and don't need to voice it :lmao:

My family's origin is Naples and Abruzzi, came thru Boston in 1890's, settled in Yonkers and the Bronx, eventually moved out to NJ.

Calamari are the mafia of the sea world, I don't mess with them either.

I'm setting up a new system this summer, and plan on taking some water and sand from our beach vacation. If it doesn't work out, I'll let ya know....:uhoh3:

 

[jus1moretank]

Love this post !!!!!