How this Geezer did it in the beginning
- Thread starter Paul B
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reeftanknewbie
New member
Paul,
I just wanted to say as a fellow veteran thanks for your sacrifices and thanks for this great thread which recaps your experiences of the beginnings of the hobby. This should turn into a blog or some kind of story (or for some a history lesson). I started in the hobby during the early 90's and remember when protein skimmers and VHO lighting was new and high tech.
I just wanted to say as a fellow veteran thanks for your sacrifices and thanks for this great thread which recaps your experiences of the beginnings of the hobby. This should turn into a blog or some kind of story (or for some a history lesson). I started in the hobby during the early 90's and remember when protein skimmers and VHO lighting was new and high tech.
reeftanknewbie
New member
Reeftanknewbie, thank you and also thank you for your service.
Actually skimmers were out in the 70s, I had one then. Sanders made a counter current skimmer. It was small but worked well.
thanks. Oh didn't know they came out in the 70's. I remember having to change the wooden air stone monthly. I had a wet dry then with a skimmer built into the sump.
Paul B
Premium Member
I don't remember how many of those wooden airstones I bought, then I started making them out of Oak I think. Finally I went to a venturi design which I am still using.
Over the years I have had many cycles of hair algae, some so severe I couldn't see the fish or corals but those were the times that the tank was the healthiest,if not the ugliest. I decided to live with the algae and build an algae trough. I did a trough because I don't have a sump, they were not invented when I started the tank, since I added the trough, which is above the water and to the rear, I have not had one occurance of hair algae in the main reef, but it does grow in the trough where it is supposed to. I think a tank is very healthy with hair algae in it but not on the corals.
I also use a large home made skimmer and Ozone. I have always used Ozone. I can't tell what the tank would be like without it because it has always been in there and cranked all the way up. The water leaving the skimmer runs across the algae trough so any residual Ozone would disappear.
I also think the killing theory is overstated with ozone. Inside my skimmer I see living brittle stars and amphipods. The ozone doesn't seem to bother them in the least. I know the ozone generator is working because if I unplug the airline there is a strong small of ozone that gives you an instant headache. I love the stuff.
So to re cap "my" methods to keep a healthy tank I use ozone, I add bacteria from the sea, I run an algae scrubber and I feed whole foods such as worms while I add cod liver oil to dry foods. Thats about it.
I also smile a lot, if the fish think I am happy, they seem to be more relaxed.
Over the years I have had many cycles of hair algae, some so severe I couldn't see the fish or corals but those were the times that the tank was the healthiest,if not the ugliest. I decided to live with the algae and build an algae trough. I did a trough because I don't have a sump, they were not invented when I started the tank, since I added the trough, which is above the water and to the rear, I have not had one occurance of hair algae in the main reef, but it does grow in the trough where it is supposed to. I think a tank is very healthy with hair algae in it but not on the corals.
I also use a large home made skimmer and Ozone. I have always used Ozone. I can't tell what the tank would be like without it because it has always been in there and cranked all the way up. The water leaving the skimmer runs across the algae trough so any residual Ozone would disappear.
I also think the killing theory is overstated with ozone. Inside my skimmer I see living brittle stars and amphipods. The ozone doesn't seem to bother them in the least. I know the ozone generator is working because if I unplug the airline there is a strong small of ozone that gives you an instant headache. I love the stuff.
So to re cap "my" methods to keep a healthy tank I use ozone, I add bacteria from the sea, I run an algae scrubber and I feed whole foods such as worms while I add cod liver oil to dry foods. Thats about it.
I also smile a lot, if the fish think I am happy, they seem to be more relaxed.
Paul B
Premium Member
The one I built was not very efficient and is not the one I am using now. That was a neon transformer which puts out about 12,000 volts and weighs about 5 lbs. I made two electrodes that were about 1/2" apart at one end and maybe 1" apart at tyhe other end. They were about 8" long and each electrode was connected to one terminal of the transformer. This was in an acrylic cylinder that was sealed and had an inlet and outlet for an airhose. Thats it. The air would pass through the sparks and pick up ozone. It was enough ozone to smell but I had no way to measure how much it was producing and it was probably not to much. I built it more for an experiment than anything else.
That was over 30 years ago I think and I took it apart and made all sorts of other things out of that transformer before I retired it.
reeftanknewbie
New member
your granddaughter is very cute. I have a new born niece as of 7 weeks ago and am loving it. I have a algae turf scrubber on my tank and I swear by it. I believe it made my corals brighter and healthier looking. Also gave a great place for pods and mysis shrimp to live and multiply. Have you ever tried those dump tables to create a wave from back in the day?
Paul B
Premium Member
I have had many small experimental tanks but I don't remember making waves in any of them. I don't think it is necessary.
I have done tanks with half land and half water for fiddler crabs.
The water was constantly pumped onto the land part to keep it wet.
I think I have tried every configuration out there, many way before they were common knowledge. There was no common knowledge then as there was no internet. You had to have your own ideas and do your own research. I learned most of what I know about fish by spending time with them where they live.
I love to dive but I like to dive on my own, not in a tourist resort with 20 other divers.
I have my own boat and equipment so I can spend all the time I like submerged.
With 3 tanks I can stay down almost 3 hours which is long enough to learn something new. Usually I only took one tank because the goal of almost all my NY dives were lobsters. My tropical dives were to learn.
mistacheese
New member
Paul, please excuse a stupid question my friend. I ordered some Cherrystone Clams in at a local fish market. When they arrived I froze them. I would like to shave and try feeding some of this, but wasn't sure if I just hit the clam with a hammer, or if I try and pry it open. I realize there isn't a right or wrong way, but with the amount of work it took to get the clam here, I don't want to ruin too much flesh!
Thanks. Now if only I could find anyone in Canada with a live black worm source...
Cheese
Thanks. Now if only I could find anyone in Canada with a live black worm source...
Cheese
reeftanknewbie
New member
Very cool Paul. I never dove before but always wanted to. I have done some snorkeling in St. Croix and it was awesome.
Paul B
Premium Member
Don't hit them with a hammer. Get a cheap knife and put it in the groove where the two valves will open. Put the hinge part of the clam on something hard and gently tap the knife in with a hammer or pliers. Put the knife all the way through then pull the clam apart. You could have done it easier if you opened the clams before you froze them but it doesn't matter.
Don't chop the clam meat but with a sharp knife, not the one you just ruined opening the clam, shave off tissue thin pieces. After you start on a spot it will be easy to keep shaving off nice big thin pieces of meat. Keep going on the same spot and it will get smooth and easier.
Speaking of clams, Last night we went to a wedding and like any good New York wedding they had a raw bar. That is where I spend my time,sucking down raw oysters, and clams. Fried calamari, steamed muscles, shrimp and crabs. That is my kind of wedding. Then I finished it of with a grilled Chilean Sea Bass. Delicious.
Of course they had some kind of meat selection but I never look at that.
Always looks so much more fun diving only in a swim suit or shorts rather than the 7 mil full body + 3 mil chest/hood heater combo I dive in Northern California / Monterey 
Price we pay to get wet - lol.
Oddly enough last month almost called a dive off. Saw some dorsal fin action at Lover's Points, Monterey. First look thought it was a shark, then my dive buddy said no, that is a group and they are breaking surface. We get out there after setting up and find a pod of dolphins playing or feeding, not sure which. They didn't leave us very good visibility by whatever they did cuz the water was murky and sandy....thanks for the extra work out by kicking out a zillion legs to get back to normal. Fun never the less.
Read a lot of this thread last night. Never thought of trying to use anything from the colder waters of Northern Ca. Few Kryll swarms I've had to swim through made me think about it but the rest, no idea. Seems it is all too cold for my small 29 gallon cube near my desk.
I know the Sea Lions wouldn't fit
Lord knows I'd like to smack them when they bite/tug on my fins!!!
Thanks again and have a great day from a fellow diver in the colder waters in Northern Ca!
Price we pay to get wet - lol.Oddly enough last month almost called a dive off. Saw some dorsal fin action at Lover's Points, Monterey. First look thought it was a shark, then my dive buddy said no, that is a group and they are breaking surface. We get out there after setting up and find a pod of dolphins playing or feeding, not sure which. They didn't leave us very good visibility by whatever they did cuz the water was murky and sandy....thanks for the extra work out by kicking out a zillion legs to get back to normal. Fun never the less.
Read a lot of this thread last night. Never thought of trying to use anything from the colder waters of Northern Ca. Few Kryll swarms I've had to swim through made me think about it but the rest, no idea. Seems it is all too cold for my small 29 gallon cube near my desk.
I know the Sea Lions wouldn't fit
Lord knows I'd like to smack them when they bite/tug on my fins!!!Thanks again and have a great day from a fellow diver in the colder waters in Northern Ca!
Paul B
Premium Member
I was going out to Montauk today to do some crabbing and clamming and of course to collect some water and it is a long drive so I got to thinking about why I love this hobby so much. I am a little different than most members here (besides being bald) in that I was born surrounded by fish. As I mentioned numerous times my family had a sea food business. Anyway when I got the first fish that I remembered I was facinated. I mean the thing consumed me for the day or so that it lived in the sink. Then I would so look forward for my to take me to the Fulton Fish Market in downtown Manhattan and watch the ships being un loaded of fish, sharks and turtles.
I would go to the piles of fish on the sidewalk and check out the differences of each species and try to figure out why they looked so different. The biggest prises with the live crabs I would sometimes find. These usually made it home with me but I couldn't keep them alive even though I shook some salt from a salt shaker into a glass of water that they were living in.
Of course I eventually learned a few things and started keeping these things alive.
But that facination of sea life never left me and when my Mom would take me to the toy store to buy a freshwater fish I thought I died and went to heaven. Even if I only had a goldfish or guppy, I was in awe. (I discovered girls years later)
When the salt part of the hobby started and a few stores started keeping thingsd other than damsels, I couldn't get enough of it. I learned as the stores learned how to care for these things and the stores would often call me for advice because I had been keeping every new animal that was introduced. Over the years I think I have kept every animal that was sold and after a few attempts with each one I knew what I could and could not keep. But without the internet, it was easier. There was no wrong information. I had to learn by doing and we all know that is the best way to learn. Not for the fish because I killed way to many of them but through my experience gradually I and the stores learned the best way to do things. Or at least the way to do things that kept the animals alive.
Now through the internet and these forums I see so much bickering. Everyone has a better idea which is usually different from my ideas. Some of my ideas are very old school and seem rediculous. Many of the old practices are now lost but some of those ways were perfected by dedicated hobbiests who had to do things through experimentation, something that is almost never thought of today. Today we Google something and take much of it as fact even though we have no idea the experience of the author.
Now if I want to put a tang in a 40 gallon tank there will be fifty posts telling me that it can't be done. In the past I kept almost every tang available in a 40 gallon tank because that was considered huge. I feel that it is my tang and my tank so i will do what my experience tells me I can do. Is a larger tank better? Of course. Maybe if I wanted to keep a manta ray I would have a problem because I could only fit part of his face in a 40 gallon tank.
We used to treat ich with copper, it is the best way. But now there are many ways, none of them as good as copper but the arguements will always persist. I keep out of the ich threads now because I am tired of people telling me I don't understand the life cycle of ich. Me and Moses invented ick, and yes I know how to spell it, I just think it should be spelled ick, probably because it is icky. :wavehand:
Anyway, I never got to Montauk today because the skies opened up and flooded the highway so I will go there next week. There is nothing like the water there as it is as far east as you can go in NY and is out in the Atlantic.
I will also collect some bacteria, pods, shrimp, codium seaweed and anythine else that I can find. Hopefully I will also get a few dozen crabs and clams also.:lol2:
I would go to the piles of fish on the sidewalk and check out the differences of each species and try to figure out why they looked so different. The biggest prises with the live crabs I would sometimes find. These usually made it home with me but I couldn't keep them alive even though I shook some salt from a salt shaker into a glass of water that they were living in.
Of course I eventually learned a few things and started keeping these things alive.
But that facination of sea life never left me and when my Mom would take me to the toy store to buy a freshwater fish I thought I died and went to heaven. Even if I only had a goldfish or guppy, I was in awe. (I discovered girls years later)
When the salt part of the hobby started and a few stores started keeping thingsd other than damsels, I couldn't get enough of it. I learned as the stores learned how to care for these things and the stores would often call me for advice because I had been keeping every new animal that was introduced. Over the years I think I have kept every animal that was sold and after a few attempts with each one I knew what I could and could not keep. But without the internet, it was easier. There was no wrong information. I had to learn by doing and we all know that is the best way to learn. Not for the fish because I killed way to many of them but through my experience gradually I and the stores learned the best way to do things. Or at least the way to do things that kept the animals alive.
Now through the internet and these forums I see so much bickering. Everyone has a better idea which is usually different from my ideas. Some of my ideas are very old school and seem rediculous. Many of the old practices are now lost but some of those ways were perfected by dedicated hobbiests who had to do things through experimentation, something that is almost never thought of today. Today we Google something and take much of it as fact even though we have no idea the experience of the author.
Now if I want to put a tang in a 40 gallon tank there will be fifty posts telling me that it can't be done. In the past I kept almost every tang available in a 40 gallon tank because that was considered huge. I feel that it is my tang and my tank so i will do what my experience tells me I can do. Is a larger tank better? Of course. Maybe if I wanted to keep a manta ray I would have a problem because I could only fit part of his face in a 40 gallon tank.
We used to treat ich with copper, it is the best way. But now there are many ways, none of them as good as copper but the arguements will always persist. I keep out of the ich threads now because I am tired of people telling me I don't understand the life cycle of ich. Me and Moses invented ick, and yes I know how to spell it, I just think it should be spelled ick, probably because it is icky. :wavehand:
Anyway, I never got to Montauk today because the skies opened up and flooded the highway so I will go there next week. There is nothing like the water there as it is as far east as you can go in NY and is out in the Atlantic.
I will also collect some bacteria, pods, shrimp, codium seaweed and anythine else that I can find. Hopefully I will also get a few dozen crabs and clams also.:lol2:
cheezischrist
New member
i hate the tang police and know it alls. when i proposed my plumbing plans for my setup and asked for input, i got no answers or input, just 3 pages bashing me and my ideas and that it wouldnt work and i better get homeowners insurance for my future flood zone. almost defeating, if i wasnt so stubborn and convinced i was gonna do it anyway. so my idea to make a venturi in the overflow line from the big tank to draw the water out of the smaller tank next to it didnt work as planned, but didnt flood anything. i just posted another question today about the skimmer bar overflow i plan to use on my next system, with a few simple questions. i'm just waiting for the bashfest to begin lol. maybe i will get the answers to the questions i have, but ill probably get more guff. either way , my system is running how i want it to, wit my own designs and no water changes or test kits, but everyting is growing and happy, so ill take it. i feed my lion freshwater variatus, similar to mollies and platies. i feed them marine food. and my lion looks incredible, amazing color, active and playful. and oddly he hates the color orange, but thats his problem. i also dont dip or quarantine, and dont have a hospital tank, or even acclimate things any more than floating the bag for 15 minutes. and i feel that all my survivors, wich is at a 95% rate can handle anything. even after having a tank start leaking and having huge , huge paramater shifts. i lost an old emerald crab and 2 corals, oddly being xenia and green star polyps. i dont think all the fancy new equipment is necessary. ive ad marine reef tanks running on basic freshwater setups since i was a kid very succesfully, stoped for about 10 years and now getting back into it theres so much new stuff i just see as things to make me lazy, and potential downfalls. i think thats why i like this thread so much.
Paul B
Premium Member
There are a lot of members of the tang police. I am a "Knew" it all, I knew it, but forgot most of it, now I don't care if anyone feels I know anything. :lol2:
I run a reverse undergravel filter, I get all sorts of flack from that but it seems to work. I get even more flack from not quarantining but I try to explain that not everyone's tank is the same and many people still need to quarantine. It depends on the health of your system and that depends on what you feed and to an extent on the age of your system. New systems are never as healthy as they can be, I am not sure why though but I think it is the stability of the bacterial population but that is just a guess.
I gave my opinion many times on what "I" have found through my experience how "I" think fish can be maintained in excellent spawning health. I am considering not going there any more either as I get too much negativity from it. Hair algae is another thing I gave up posting about. People just want to keep changing water no matter how many years people have been doing that to no avail.
I guess I am just getting old, opinionated and crotchity. :beachbum:
Just remember, it's your animals in your tank in your house. Use your own discretion.
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Fish Biscuit
Active member
I think most people try to help but I do notice once in a while people will get crucified. I will admit to being guilty, a few days ago someone had live rock in a bucket & wanted to know if they could add it to the tank or if they should kill it & start over, someone suggested killing it with acid & then starting over. Makes no sense to me but oh well. I have to learn to keep my mouth shut & behave, I'm pretty good for the most part but everyonce in a while it gets the best of me
I agree Paul, if it works for your tank then run with it. There are a million ways to do something & not everything works for everyone.
The internet is good & bad. I work a few Saturdays at a vet & we have clients come into the clinic w/ their cat & after researching decide that the cat has a brain tumor when it is something like an overactive thyroid gland easily treated with medication.
That granddaughter of yours is growing up fast, pretty soon she'll be out there collecting pods w/ you. Greta is a beautiful little girl & before you know it the 2 of you will be out at the LFS working on her tank.
I agree Paul, if it works for your tank then run with it. There are a million ways to do something & not everything works for everyone.
The internet is good & bad. I work a few Saturdays at a vet & we have clients come into the clinic w/ their cat & after researching decide that the cat has a brain tumor when it is something like an overactive thyroid gland easily treated with medication.
That granddaughter of yours is growing up fast, pretty soon she'll be out there collecting pods w/ you. Greta is a beautiful little girl & before you know it the 2 of you will be out at the LFS working on her tank.
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