How to avoid Phytoplankton crashes
- Thread starter melev
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PrivateJoker64
In Memoriam
My concern is not the copper killing the phyto, but the copper build-up in the reef tank. After reading that article about the possible higher levels of copper, I think I will stick with using RO-DI water, plus the recommended additions of fertilizer and trace elements. Fingers crossed!
melev
Well-known member
I think that RO/DI water lacks the nitrates and such that phyto needs. Keep in mind that I crashed a lot of cultures before using RO/DI, so you might have the same problem.
If you are overly concerned about copper in the water, test your source water. Turn on the faucet, let it run a minute, then use the fresh water instead, rather than water sitting in the pipes for a duration.
If you are overly concerned about copper in the water, test your source water. Turn on the faucet, let it run a minute, then use the fresh water instead, rather than water sitting in the pipes for a duration.
PrivateJoker64
In Memoriam
Yes, the RO-DI does lack everything, but isn't that the reason for adding Kent Trace Elements and fertilizer as you suggested?
Like you, I used to do fine with RO-DI and FAF fertilizer, but then the cultures started crashing, and I gave up in disgust. I'm going to give it another try using Miracle Grow and Kent trace elements as you suggested.
BTW, Phyto Feast is raw sewage, as near as I can tell. Stay away from it!
Like you, I used to do fine with RO-DI and FAF fertilizer, but then the cultures started crashing, and I gave up in disgust. I'm going to give it another try using Miracle Grow and Kent trace elements as you suggested.
BTW, Phyto Feast is raw sewage, as near as I can tell. Stay away from it!
PrivateJoker64
In Memoriam
Also, I just tried to sterilize an empty 2-liter bottle in the microwave by putting a little water in it and laying it in the mw on its side with the top off the bottle. I succeded in melting down the bottle. I'm sure it's sterile now, but it's also flat.
LOL
LOL
melev
Well-known member
:lolspin: I decided to not go that far with sterilization. I've used very hot water, vinegar and water, and even bleach and water. Now what I tend to do is rinse the bottle out well, and leave it open in the garage to dry out until I finally need it. That seems to help even though technically anything could crawl in there. However, there is no smell of the previous beverage in the bottle doing it this way, and my cultures haven't crashed any more.
At our recent meeting, two people asked me to bring them a bottle full. Another member came up to me and stated that his was darker. I joked that mine was much darker, and he suggested we have a competition. It was all in good humor, because neither of us even showed the other their culture. Later, one of the recipients of my culture told me mine was much darker and the other guy had to concede.
I'm really not like that, and didn't pursue the competition, but I am glad that I can actually grow this stuff successfully again, finally!
At our recent meeting, two people asked me to bring them a bottle full. Another member came up to me and stated that his was darker. I joked that mine was much darker, and he suggested we have a competition. It was all in good humor, because neither of us even showed the other their culture. Later, one of the recipients of my culture told me mine was much darker and the other guy had to concede.
I'm really not like that, and didn't pursue the competition, but I am glad that I can actually grow this stuff successfully again, finally!
I use the water change water from my tank and boil it making sure it gets to at least 160 deg f. I was culturing with 2 liter pop bottles but have switch to glass wide mouth 1 gallon jars and am having much better luck. Use FAF F2 fertilizer 2 ml per bottle and start new culture with 1/4 gallon from old culture. Glass needs to be cleaned with muric acid every other batch. Date my cultures and never let them go more than 1 week. Have 5 gallons going at once and supply local club with phyto they need ($2 for 16 oz bottle and $8 for 2 liters). Forces me to do water changes in my tank and keeps me in frags at local club meetings.
About a tablespoonful of bleach in a 2 liter bottle left for about 30 minutes should disinfect the bottle in most cases. Rinse it well and let it dry to make sure it is free of chlorine residuals. Don't use declor on the bottle as it may have bacteria in it if it has been stored for any amount of time.
If doing the microwave trick don't put water in the bottle. Just microwave it for about a minute dry. The micro-organisms you wish to eliminate already have water in their cell structure and it will boil during microwaving and kill them. I think the steam is what melted your bottle as I tried this with a dry bottle and it made it through the process fine.
If doing the microwave trick don't put water in the bottle. Just microwave it for about a minute dry. The micro-organisms you wish to eliminate already have water in their cell structure and it will boil during microwaving and kill them. I think the steam is what melted your bottle as I tried this with a dry bottle and it made it through the process fine.
PrivateJoker64
In Memoriam
Yeah, I'm sure it was the steam.
I thought it was bad to run your microwave without something in it to absorb the energy. Do you put a cup of water in there with the bottle?
I thought it was bad to run your microwave without something in it to absorb the energy. Do you put a cup of water in there with the bottle?
melev
Well-known member
Kathy, when you read this page, look at the section dated 1-20-05 for the new method that works. My cultures have been bubbling for 3 weeks straight, and are long overdue to split. I just haven't done it. I'll do it tonight though. 
http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
I heard they really get ripped off in Canada. The gallons there are only 3.153 liters.
Actually, an imperial gallon is larger than a US gallon and works out to about 4.5 liters per gallon.
The US and imperial volume measures are strangely different. According to this web site (http://www.bartleby.com/61/charts/M0182500.html), the 'fl oz' has a different volume in the two systems. In the US system, a fl oz is 29.57 ml while in the imperial system, it is 28.41 ml (i.e. the US fl oz is about 4% larger.). I think most people just ignore this but, for percise measurements, it can become important. Of course, for precise measurement and scientific purposes, we should also use metric measures which have a universal meaning.
More than anyone needs to know
The US and imperial volume measures are strangely different. According to this web site (http://www.bartleby.com/61/charts/M0182500.html), the 'fl oz' has a different volume in the two systems. In the US system, a fl oz is 29.57 ml while in the imperial system, it is 28.41 ml (i.e. the US fl oz is about 4% larger.). I think most people just ignore this but, for percise measurements, it can become important. Of course, for precise measurement and scientific purposes, we should also use metric measures which have a universal meaning.
More than anyone needs to know
A couple questions? What are the concerns with adding fertilizer to a reef tank (it is in with the phytoplantkon...)???
this thread from Dr. Ron raised my concern:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=589761
Also-- for those looking for a nice sanitizer other then bleach or microwaving... I use this for brewing beer and cleaning my fermenters. It is effective and requires no rinsing.
http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=one+step
For cleaning you can use this but it needs to be rinsed--- much safer then bleach though. Powdered Brewery Wash...
http://www.northernbrewer.com/sanitizers.html
this thread from Dr. Ron raised my concern:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=589761
Also-- for those looking for a nice sanitizer other then bleach or microwaving... I use this for brewing beer and cleaning my fermenters. It is effective and requires no rinsing.
http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=one+step
For cleaning you can use this but it needs to be rinsed--- much safer then bleach though. Powdered Brewery Wash...
http://www.northernbrewer.com/sanitizers.html
also to avoid air pump contamination--- cause of crashes?
Try this cheap micron filter, i use it to airate cooled beer wort before fermenting.
SCROLL DOWN AND FIND: "In-Line Sanitary Filter"-- like 5 bucks
http://www.northernbrewer.com/chilling-etc.html
Try this cheap micron filter, i use it to airate cooled beer wort before fermenting.
SCROLL DOWN AND FIND: "In-Line Sanitary Filter"-- like 5 bucks
http://www.northernbrewer.com/chilling-etc.html
PrivateJoker64
In Memoriam
Bringing this thread back from the Daed.
Bringing this thread back from the Daed.
Well, I've been trying the suggested method that seems to work for everyone else.
I bought some glass beakers to use, since glass is easy to clean, and microwave safe.
The first culture I started with this method is still alive, going strong. All the secondary cultures have crashed inside of 24 hours. No idea why.
I have microwaved the culture water in the beakers, boiling it this way for seven minutes. Let it cool, aerate for a day, add the fertilizer and trace elements, add the phyto, and within a day, it crashes. All the phyto settles to the bottom, regardless of the rapid aeration.
Next I boiled the culture water on the stovetop for ten minutes. Went through the same process, and still it crashed within a day.
Through all this, the original culture is chugging along. I add boiled makeup water to it daily to replace evaporation.
My conclusion - there is NO WAY that a living organism is causing the crashes. It has to be something else. Could it be that i have residual bleach in the beakers even after all the rinsing and drying I do?I'd be pulling my hair out if I had enough to pull.
Bringing this thread back from the Daed.
Well, I've been trying the suggested method that seems to work for everyone else.
I bought some glass beakers to use, since glass is easy to clean, and microwave safe.
The first culture I started with this method is still alive, going strong. All the secondary cultures have crashed inside of 24 hours. No idea why.
I have microwaved the culture water in the beakers, boiling it this way for seven minutes. Let it cool, aerate for a day, add the fertilizer and trace elements, add the phyto, and within a day, it crashes. All the phyto settles to the bottom, regardless of the rapid aeration.
Next I boiled the culture water on the stovetop for ten minutes. Went through the same process, and still it crashed within a day.
Through all this, the original culture is chugging along. I add boiled makeup water to it daily to replace evaporation.
My conclusion - there is NO WAY that a living organism is causing the crashes. It has to be something else. Could it be that i have residual bleach in the beakers even after all the rinsing and drying I do?I'd be pulling my hair out if I had enough to pull.
melev
Well-known member
This is why I decided to go with Recipe II. 
The water doesn't need to be purified, btw. Tap water is just fine for this situation, because it contains nitrate, phosphate, and god-knows what else. The TDS of my tap water is 177.
In case you want to see both recipes, here they are. However, if you want to debate Recipe II, please go back through the thread and read my comments so I don't have to repost them.
http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
The water doesn't need to be purified, btw. Tap water is just fine for this situation, because it contains nitrate, phosphate, and god-knows what else. The TDS of my tap water is 177.
In case you want to see both recipes, here they are. However, if you want to debate Recipe II, please go back through the thread and read my comments so I don't have to repost them.
http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
